Imprisonment without charge ... ever justified?

by Simon 29 Replies latest social current

• 

  onacruse

  HS,

  As I've been pondering issues of this thread, one thought came to me almost like a bolt out of the blue (as I sat in the garage, having a cig or 10 ), and which you just elucidated by saying:

  I understand what you are saying but actually what history shows is that even when outrages of genocide occur it is normally a very small group taking part in these outrages

  I wonder? How many people have actually been in charge of this world? Of the 10s of billions who've lived on this planet, it seems like just a very small handful have, somehow, charismatically, succeeded in dictating the lives of many more (m)billions; as has the religion of the WTS.

  What would you say?

  My guess: 10 (for the WTS); 100 (for the world).
• 

  hillary_step

  Craig,

  I wonder? How many people have actually been in charge of this world? Of the 10s of billions who've lived on this planet, it seems like just a very small handful have, somehow, charismatically, succeeded in dictating the lives of many more (m)billions; as has the religion of the WTS.

  Dismal thought isn't it. It seems to me that the percentage of people on the planet who are defineably wicked, by socially accepted denominators, are so small that they would all fit in Rod Stewart's bed.

  The rest of us are manipulated, coerced, emotionally blackmailed, medicated and groomed to become victims of religious and political marketing from an early age, so much so, that we do not even know our own minds half the time.

  I think beneath the warpaint we are all pretty decent, just wanting to live our little lives in peace, but few of us can buy that luxury.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  Big Tex, so very true. And it's sad to see that our current government has failed to learn from it's history, so it's doomed to repeat it!

  My 2cents on the US v. Indians.... It was warfare. The US wanted the Indian land, and "declared" war on them. After the "war" was over, and indians contained on reservations, the children were still rounded up taken from family and sent to indian boarding schools, where they were not allowed to speak their own language... at all! And on the reservations, their religions were not allowed to be practiced, until 1972.

  The US Government has this moral majority holier than thou attitude that should be spread the world over. Ugh. No wonder Hunter Thompson commited suicide. I think I'll move to Mexico.... At least the corruption is open, understood, and accepted as such, and not covered up as it is in the US....
• 

  donkey

  Set all US detainees free in Manchester England NOW!!!
• 

  Kenneson

  Ianone,

  Did Rome allow the Jewish Sanhedrin to put people to death? What a powerful conspiracy, indeed!
• 

  onacruse

  HS:

  Dismal thought isn't it. It seems to me that the percentage of people on the planet who are defineably wicked, by socially accepted denominators...

  Interesting. This is a thought that I brought up personally with U. Grant (deceased), after he had just done a Gilead meeting. He freely admitted that genetic factors might be a consideration (on Jehovah's part) insofar as guilt or innocence are concerned, and especially about the chances for resurrection (we specifically discussed Hitler).

  Some years later, and for other reasons, I wrote a letter to Brooklyn, along the same lines. The response (from Merton Campbell, of the "service department") conceded that "our" determination of who might be considered "wicked" is seriously limited.

  However, in the context of this discussion: I submit that, though a very very few might lead the way, the result is that many many others thereby, therefore, somehow! 'find a way' to demonstrate what they are within themselves; thus my statements above.

  My current perspective about such matters is based on an on-going personal investigation of what I consider to be the very direct consequences of a truly all-out-no-holds-barred-no-superior-moral-standard "survival of the fittest" interpretation of the universe.

  Within those parameters, there is no such thing as "unjustified imprisonment," or, for that matter, even "unjustified torture" or "unjustified execution." ( I have in my mind the picture of the post-frontal pistol summary execution of a suspected VietCong...I'm sure most all of us have seen it).

  A hard subject.

  Craig
• 

  stillajwexelder

  I do not like making blanket yes or no's because there are always exceptions . We have in English Common Law and hence US -the writ of Habeus Corpus -so in general my answer is no -but there has to be exceptions - if there was a nuclear weapon planted in London or New York right now and I knew I could find its location by holding a terrorist without charge (and yes torturing the bastard) would I do it -you are fu----g right I would. But as a general rule no -it is a bad thing a runs contrary to law that has been built up since Runnymede
• 

  Simon

  if there was a nuclear weapon planted in London or New York right now and I knew I could find its location by holding a terrorist without charge (and yes torturing the bastard) would I do it -you are fu----g right I would. But as a general rule no -it is a bad thing a runs contrary to law that has been built up since Runnymede

  Interesting ... this is the scenario often quoted as being 'ok' to torture people and yet it never works. The problem with torture is that:

  a. You don't really know if the person knows the information you need (and if you do, then you probably know the information).

  b. You run the real risk of getting false information. Most people if tortured will make something up until they hit on something that the torturer is after which is why the evidence gleaned from torture (such as confessions etc) is almost always bogus.
• 

  pepheuga

  woa simon, you're up early! don't forget to *do* the day's text with the kids!

  pepheuga
• 

  upside/down

  No dictator ever had as much control over his people.... as a parent exercises over it's children.

  I agree... The "system" seems to have a mind of it's own. When the masses agree that the status quo is wrong, yet the status quo continues and maybe has for centuries... it has to make you wonder. This is a "chink" in the "worlds" armor that the JW exploit masterfully!

  Nobody (or at least VERY FEW people) has much control over anything, especially when it comes to the plight of humanity. However almost everyone has an opinion of how they would like for things to improve... and most people share that same vision more or less. It's the few that have no fear of being brutal and ruthless that manage to float to the top of the heap and rule.

  Our problem is we're too short lived. Imagine if we all still lived like they did way back in the day, let's say 900 years or so. Now that would be INTERESTING!!!

  What amazes me is that someone's actions when related to humans is considered barbaric and uncivilized- yet if the same "actions" were committed by an animal and in the animal world we would attribute greatness and strength and excellent evolutionary survival skills....

  u/d (of the sometimes I wonder class)