Free will?

by mjl 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  zen nudist

  one of the very first cracks in JW theology I discovered was their strange notion that Jehovah "could" know the exact future if he wanted to, but chose not to.... translation, the future exists to be known, but Jehovah does not want to spoil his own fun so made himself willfully ignorant... they give the analogy that he is all powerful but choses to excersize his power selectively and not all at once lest he set the universe to self destruct.... seems almost reasonable until I realized that it just does not work... if anyone Jehovah or otherwise could even in principle know the REAL future that is coming, then it means that it in a sense already exists and no choices are more than our ignorance. and even Jehovah himself is just a puppet to fate or Destiny... his choice to be ignorant is thus no such thing, but just part of his nature.

  most of christendumb says that God is all knowing, but that he gave us freewill anyway, not seeing how stupid that really is... if God knows everything, including every move he himself will make, then he does not have freewill nor can he give it to anyone else...again he is a puppet of his own foreknowledge. if you say he can know EVERY possibility and CHOSE which one to act upon, then unless you suggest he is insane or stupid, he must chose the best one and again there really is no choice.

  without the myth of freewill humans cannot properly be damned for being exactly what they never had any choice in, which makes just about every religion fall apart.... but there is no real reason to believe that freewill is more than a myth.

  if my actions have CAUSES in the stream of time, then they are obviously NOT free. If they are random, they are equally obviously not willed nor my choice... so freewill is nothing but an oxymoron term without vaildity other than in myth.

  if there is a single past which lead up to where we all find ourselves right this moment... the single present... it would seem that the inertia of reality will guarentee only a single future will result..... so the illusion of choice seems to stem from nothing more than our ignorance of what course we will take until we take it... the future may be unpredictable but still completely determined.

  recent physical models relying on 11 dimensional membrane theory seem to confirm that every event in the entire universe has been part of this single unfolding of events which stem from this eternal nature of reality which no one made....often over looked by those who beileve in a creator is that he had no say in his own existance and so his eternal nature was never a choice.
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  JamesThomas

  mji, you said: "I wasn?t thinking free will in the philosophical sense but in the JW sense."
  
  Trying to make sense of the "JW sense" is senseless, and here's why: If we stop for a moment and allow ourselves to be still, there may be noticed the infinite nature of life and the universe. In fact, there may be countless universes. What sense does it make to attribute this endless wonderment to a limited and blundering tribal deity? Jehovah, the male deity, is a fools god; and to attempt to make sense out of foolishness is, well, foolish.
  
  Let go of ideas and beliefs of a god, and allow yourself to just dwell in the silent wonder and awe of it all; and see what answers are found here.
  
  
  j
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  Sheri

  Elsewhere, you made my morning :) , enjoyed your post!

  El blanko, simple but sweet, well done.

  So glad that I found this site.

  Peace

  Sheri
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  what_Truth?

  I believe that every person on earth has qualities and talents that are as individualistic as our fingerprints. God's supreme will is that we 1) Recognize those talents and qualities 2) Hone these talents and qualities to the best of our abilities 3) Find a way to share these qualities for the use and enjoyment of the rest of the world.
  
  We have the free will to ignore these holy directives if we want, but the more we deny our purpose the worse our life will get. The more we accept it the better our life will work and the happier we will be. Imortality has less to do with where we go when we die then it does with what we leave behind.
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  Qcmbr

  Am I really listening to this!!!! You have more free will than you can imagine you nutters!! This 'theres no free will only predefined actions' is the sort of bizarre thinking that actually keeps me in my religion. If you are conscious you have free will. Free will isn't the ability to do anything you want its the ability to choose happiness or unhappiness by your actions and thoughts (so even if your in jail you can still respond to that situation.) There is nothing so annoying as a bunch of filthy rich people banging on about lack of free will - go to a 3rd world country and see how they respect their free will and get on with living it. Rant over.
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  frankiespeakin

  Free will is an illusion. We think that our mind is free to think of what ever it wants and this influences our actions this is an illusion too.

  First of all are stuck in the space time dimension and so can not do anything we want but are limited by it.

  Second we do not know what determines what thoughts are, or what determines what we choose what we think of except only in the most general way, that has many limitations,, example: Can we think of anything we want to think about? No,,thoughts are very limited based on programing particular to our species,, we don't have the ability normally to think the same thoughts that a dolphin thinks or that of a spider or what other spiecies think. And so our thought processes are limited in how we think which follows how we are programed to think. We would like to think that we as a spicies do not have instincts like the lower animal that are preprogramed to act a certain way for survival, but such is not the case we may have more variables as species, but we are still programed to respond in a certain way with variation based on our programing, which only gives the appearance of free will. We do not know what causes us to produce thoughts, or responses,, except only in the most general way. Our lack of understanding in these areas is what gives us the mental perception that we have free will,, when in fact it is only our limited understanding that makes it look as if we our in control when in fact we act precisely like we should act when we understand all the influences involved.
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  zen nudist

  If you are conscious you have free will. Free will isn't the ability to do anything you want its the ability to choose happiness or unhappiness by your actions and thoughts

  sounds nice but has no meaning.

  people can only chose the most compelling option availible to them and what makes it most compelling are hidden inner mechanisms which do not care what your consciously desire or want.... most smokers trying to quit will tell you about their lack of freewill....

  and if you really believe you have freewill then try to do this one simple thing: get that stupid inner voice to stop gabbering for more than a 30 seconds.... and if you can do it, what made you finally do it? was it my suggestion that you could not? was it your own will?

  if what you do has a prior cause, how is it free, if it has no prior cause, but is random, how is it willed? if not caused nor random, then what? magic?