Help. Talking to Mom.

unique1

My mother and I have been going back and forth about meeting attendence. I don't feel I have to go to meetings to be a follower of god (of course I don't believe the witnesses have the truth either), but one step at a time. I told her Heb. 25:11 does say not to forsake the gathering of yourselves (god's people) together, but that I hang out with her and my dad and some old Witness friends so I am not forsaking gatherings. Her reply is as follows.

Yes, I think the brothers use that scripture more because it is a command. Do you know of any scriptures that tell you not to go to the meetings, or that you can worship Jehovah on your own? I would be very interested in those.

Any of you guys have any clues as to how to answer this? All help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Elsewhere

Yes, I think the brothers use that scripture more because it is a command. Do you know of any scriptures that tell you not to go to the meetings, or that you can worship Jehovah on your own? I would be very interested in those.

That is a bait-and-switch... don't fall for it.

You said that you are not neglecting your "gathering yourselves together", and you are not. She then replied as if you said that you DID neglect such gathering.

The correct response is: So, where in the bible does it explicitly state that I am to attend meetings at a building called a "Kingdom Hall" with people who are members of a book publishing corporation called the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society"? (Then emphasize again that you DO meet with your fellow Christians under other circumstances).

Quotes

First of all, your Mom's argument is logically flawed. The onus is on HER to provide proof for her claim; shifting the burden of proof to you to proove a counter-claim is a clever and common trick.

Example:

Imagine an (innocent) person on trial for murder. Instead of presenting proof that the (innocent) suspect was the murderer (e.g. suspect's fingerprints on murder weapon, suspect's DNA at crime scene, victim's blood on suspect's clothes, etc) what if the prosecution simply said: "We suspect the suspect, and we leave it up to the suspect to proove he/she is innocent -- and if he/she can't do that, then they must be guilty." Fortunately, the law doesn't work like this!!! (at least, it is not supposed to).

However, taking the bait offered by you Mom, I recall a scripture that says something like "whereever two or three are gathered together, there I (Jesus) will be also". The JWs use this to justify tiny meetings necessary when they are "under ban(tm)", but I don't think there is anything in that scripture which explicitly refers to an officially sanctioned Watchtowerism meeting. You may have a hard time convincing your mother of this, though; the WT has supplied her with an a priori understanding of that scripture which fits WT dogma -- i.e. the WT says this scripture only applies to offically sanctinoed Watchtowerism meetings. You may have to read it, in context, many many times and she will still reject the meaning of those simple and direct words. But it's a start.

~Quotes.

lonelysheep

Do you know of any scriptures that tell you not to go to the meetings, or that you can worship Jehovah on your own? I would be very interested in those.

Me: "Mom, do you know of any scriptures which says this is regarding religion, meetings, or anything that is conducted by someone with a title? You say you have the truth so show it to me."

Or: "Mom, I don't know of ANY scriptures that tell me to go to meetings!!"

AuntieJane

Hi Unique1. I have enjoyed your postings; you seem to be doing well. Don't let your Mom pull you into these situations. Answers like you've been shown here are good ones, give the question back to her. Have you read any of the recommended books on cults? You will gain a lot by doing so, and be more able to answer her/or NOT answer her. Take care.

unique1

Well she did give proof, I just left that part out. Here are the scriptures. I haven't gotten through them all but I am answering them one at a time. Any INPUT would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!! My replies are in Blue.

Luke 2:36, 37, 46-50 Anna was in the temple both day and night, but the vast majority, really all but a handful only went to the temple a few times a year. Jesus chose to go back to the temple for a few days he didn?t go under compulsion or because he thought he would loose God?s favor if the didn?t.

Psalms 149:1: This Obviously is an exaduration, Versus 5 and 6 read: 5 Let the loyal ones exult in glory; Let them cry out joyfully on their beds. 6 Let the songs extolling God be in their throat, And a two-edged sword be in their hand, and I am fairly sure none of us carry our beds or a sword to the meetings.

27:4; 29:9; 11:4; Jehovah is in his holy temple.
Jehovah?in the heavens is his throne.
His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men. Well this one makes it sound as if Jehovah?s temple is in the heavens, and if that is the case, 27:4 and 29:9 is more than likely referring to God?s heavenly temple, not his earthly one.

Proverbs 26:26 Hatred is covered over by deceit. His badness will be uncovered in the congregation. Well that obviously isn?t true. Think about all of the hatred that goes uncovered. At least I am honest about it.

1 Cor. 14:19; As in all the congregations of the holy ones, 34 let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak, but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says. 35 If, then, they want to learn something, let them question their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in a congregation. The witness obviously don?t believe this is the case. You speak at the meetings ALL the time. So are you in a congregation of Holy ones? Guess not.

16:20; I do greet the brothers with affection when I see them. Well at least the ones that aren?t two faced.

1:10 10 Now I exhort YOU , brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU , but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. This is possible without going to meetings.

Gal. 1:13 Y OU , of course, heard about my conduct formerly in Ju´da·ism, that to the point of excess I kept on persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it, Here he is in part referring to the stoning of Stephen. A single person, but one who was a follower of Christ, not Judaism. Therefore he although being one person believing in Christ can be considered a congregation since there are others that believe in Christ. I am pretty sure Paul didn?t go to the Temple and blow it up or anything.

Eph. 1:11; 5:24

Exodus 12:6

Deut. 9:10

Haggai 2:7

Acts 16:5

Col. 1:18

1 Peter 2:17

John 17:20, 21

AK - Jeff

1 Kings 19: 9-18

Elijah [a faithful servant of Jehovah all his life] did not even know of the existence of 7,000 other faithful ones - he certainly was not meeting with them - and there is no indication that he did so even after Jehovah showed them to him.

According to witness-lore they should have set up meetings right away and met to 'encourage one another to ~~guilt~~ love and fine works"

Jeff

unique1

Please ignore my hideous spelling of exaggeration.

unique1

The rest of my replies. Some I just have no replies for. Again any input is appreciated.

unique1

Eph. 1:11; 5:24

Exodus 12:6 And it must continue under safeguard by YOU until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings. Each family obeyed this command in their own homes. Again the congregation is referred to as people having the same belief, but are not necessarily gathered together in the same place.

Deut. 9:10 then Jehovah gave me the two tablets of stone written upon with God?s finger; and upon them were all the words that Jehovah had spoken with YOU in the mountain out of the middle of the fire in the day of the congregation. They were all in the wilderness. Of course they had to stick together. God was providing manna and water each day only in that small area. They couldn?t leave. They did however split up into family groups (12 tribes) among reaching a land where they could fend for themselves.

Haggai 2:7 I have no idea why you included this scripture.

Acts 16:5.

Col. 1:18 I believe in Jesus and try to follow his example, therefore I am one of his followers and a member of his congregation.

1 Peter 2:17 I do love all followers of Christ.

John 17:20, 21 I feel that all followers of Christ are in union with him and each other. By going to a meeting, who are you proving that to? Certainly not Christ or Jehovah. Jehovah sees all and can read hearts. By going to a meeting you are merely showing off to other humans.

Help. Talking to Mom.

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