Help with Israelite Example

by TheListener 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TheListener

  I've searched and searched and can find nothing that specifically addresses this issue. I've checked CoC and IsoCF. Please help me or at least point me in the right direction.

  This is the subject that I'm not good at discussing or refuting:

  1. The Israelites did what they were told by their god directed organization even if they didn't understand the reasoning (or weren't given it). We don't always understand why the society gives certain direction or may even see that the direction doesn't make sense - do it anyway; God's looking out for us. For example the smoking and cancer link and the blood transfusion and AIDS link.

  Any help would be appreciated.
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  unique1

  What about the Awake saying vaccinations were bad? That wasn't beneficial for his followers.
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  IP_SEC

  Hi TheListener,

  Remember that the Law was a tutor leading to Christ. The Law organized people under a nation, as well as under a highly hierarchical, ceremonial religion.
  One of the things that the Law should have led the Jews to understand is that, relationships with God don?t work well under an earthly institution. Institutions become corrupt, and damage people even if they are based on a perfect Law. Christ removed the law and from his people and mediatorship from the priests. He became King, Lawgiver, Mediator, and High Priest. For a spirit begotten son of his, a human institution is absolutely unnecessary, and harmful. We have so much more now than the Jews did, we don?t need an organization to tell us what is right and wrong. It is between me and him now. You and Christ.

  Now the Israelites did not do what they were told with no explanation, Moses preformed many signs for them proving he was chosen as a leader and archetype of Christ. Also the Jews were under no obligation to follow a leader who had not given proof of his anointing or if he told them to do things that were wrong.

  No human or group could ever claim this leadership/Priestly role again as it is a position that only belongs to Jesus.

  IPSec
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  RunningMan

  Well, this principle goes in both directions.

  For example, King David refused to raise his hand against Saul, even though Saul was corrupt and trying to kill David - because David regarded Saul as the "anointed of Jehovah". Therefore, we should always obey God's appointed leader and wait on God's due time to make changes.

  On the other hand, the Israelites were continually being punished for following bad kings. When Jesus himself saw corruption, he took personal steps to correct it (overturning the tables of the moneychangers). When the king, priest, or other leader turned to false Gods, the Israelites were expected to overturn him and restore pure worship.
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  Elsewhere

  1. The Israelites did what they were told by their god directed organization even if they didn't understand the reasoning (or weren't given it). We don't always understand why the society gives certain direction or may even see that the direction doesn't make sense - do it anyway; God's looking out for us. For example the smoking and cancer link and the blood transfusion and AIDS link.

  The Israelites were recieving directions from their god, not a book publishing corporation.

  Anyone who tries to say what you mentioned is placing the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in the same position of authority as their god. Ask them if they think the WTS is their god or if they believe that the WTS is in direct communication with their god.
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  blondie

  Think of this:

  Did the every Israelite get a daily revelation from God so they knew what to do?

  No, where did they get their information?

  From their holy writings

  From their religious leaders

  What if their religious leaders told them to do something that was not in harmony with the holy writings?

  Did they go ahead and do it, thinking that God spoke through the religious leadrs?

  If you read the OT, you find here are many years where the religious leaders were corrupt and only one or 2 spoke up, Jeremiah and Isaiah come to mind.

  Without quoting specific scriptures, there are numerous statements from God through these men saying that the nation of Israel and its religious leaders were corrupt and that the people should not listen to them.

  Blondie (I see a parallel here)
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  pennycandy

  If the Bible gave commands to us about smoking or blood transfusions, then of course, we should obey. But we know it doesn't address these things, which leaves it up to interpretation. Anything concerning these issues is just opinion.

  If you believe the F&DS are speaking for Jehovah, then you would believe He deplores smoking and blood transfusions. If you believe they are just imperfect men who aren't prophets but do the best they can to make rules for their 6 million followers, then most thinking people would need to understand the reasons behind the rules before accepting them as life-or-death issues.
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  robhic

  I can't take credit for this example but I think it kinda fits and I also find it very interesting. 'Nuf said...

  Robert

  2 King 10:18,19,25-28
  Further, Je ́ hu collected all the people together and said to them: "A ́ hab, on the one hand, worshiped Ba ́ al a little. Je ́ hu, on the other hand, will worship him a great deal. So now call all the prophets of Ba ́ al, all his worshipers and all his priests to me. Do not let a single one be missing, because I have a great sacrifice for Ba ́ al. Anyone that is missing will not keep living." As for Je ́ hu, he acted slyly, for the purpose of destroying the worshipers of Ba ́ al.
  ...
  And it came about that as soon as he finished rendering up the burnt offering, Je ́ hu immediately said to the runners and the adjutants: "Come in, strike them down! Do not let a single one go out." And the runners and the adjutants began to strike them down with the edge of the sword and to throw them out, and they kept going as far as the city of the house of Ba ́ al. Then they brought out the sacred pillars of the house of Ba ́ al and burned each one. Further, they pulled down the sacred pillar of Ba ́ al and pulled down the house of Ba ́ al, and they kept it set aside for privies down to this day.
  
  Thus Je ́ hu annihilated Ba ́ al out of Israel.

  [Now let's say an Israelite had said: "Well I think it's wrong to worship Baal. But King Jehu is Jehovah's anointed representative, so if he says it's alright, it must be alright!" Based on the Watchtower's reasoning, that's what they should have done. They should have subordinated their own judgment to that of the divinely appointed king. But if they'd done that... they would have been killed!

  So according to the Bible as understood by the Witnesses, a worshipper of Jehovah could be put to death for listening to "Jehovah's anointed representative" instead of his own reading of God's law.]
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  A Paduan

  But why would you believe that the wtbts is 'god-directed' ?

  I think they are of a different spiritual origin than my own.
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  Perry

  1. Jeremiah 14:14
     Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries [ Or visions, worthless divinations ] and the delusions of their own minds.
     Jeremiah 14:13-15 (in Context) Jeremiah 14 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Jeremiah 23:16
     This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD

  Jeremiah's comments above are so relevent that he might as well be a poster on JWD discussing WT pomp and boasting.