LET GOD BE TRUE........WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH...... (page 2)

marsal

gdt,

You state that only the Father was called The God (ho theos). Jesus was also called ho theos in John 20:28.

Marcel, I seemed to have trouble finding a 'the' or 'ho' in Jn 20:28. Only the same greek word theos which is used for either the supreme deity, or magistrate, or man, or satan, or god, or our Lord Jesus, as Strong's footnotes show, but was it not Jesus who said the true worshippers would worship the Father in Spirit and truth? Jn 20:17.

However, we could throw multiple verses around all with several optional meanings. How about just one verse only when Jesus, either pre-on earth, during his earthly presence, or after his resurrection, is quoted as saying he is now 'almighty'?? That he has been raised, not just to a 'higher position' than previous, but back to an 'almighty' or 'equal to God' position??

And any Bible verses you have found that suggest the Father is also an agent, has a 'god', was put to death in any sense, was in hell, and etc etc...please don't dismiss the overall picture.

Regards,

gdt

Leolaia

Marcel, I seemed to have trouble finding a 'the' or 'ho' in Jn 20:28. Only the same greek word theos which is used for either the supreme deity, or magistrate, or man, or satan, or god, or our Lord Jesus, as Strong's footnotes show,

"ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou" (John 20:28).

gdt

thanks leolaia, and marsal, I appreciate that. the rendering of Jn.1:1 seems somewhat open to alternatives, and when read in the NEB as 'what God was, the Word was' it allows for such alternate renderings...waiting on an answer to those couple of requests marsal please.(or anyone please)

gdt

and 'Sally Sue'......(how do you do!) I shouldn't have done that, sorry, but if you look at most all of the titles shared by Jehovah and Jesus, such as 'first and last', or 'father', they are common descriptions and in a supreme way or a mediator way, apply to both heavenly persons.

However, as to the Father yhwh, Yahweh, (most preferred,) or Jehovah (more well known in English), some titles are nowhere to be found applicable to the Father.

Such as : priest, mediator, first born, lower than angels, in subjection, resurrected, son, etc.

Does that make sense? Hope so, keep studying, it's worth it.

Regards,

gdt

homme perdu

i'd like to hear what narkissos has say.

marsal

gdt,

At Hebrews 1:8, I know the NWT translates it as "God is your throne", but that is not what the original Greek states. It says "But of the son, he says, 'your throne, O God (ho theos) is forever and ever".

In that passage, God the Father calls Jesus ho theos, The God.

LittleToe

You're making one big assumption, that being that the name YHWH only pertains to the Father...

Try re-reading your texts, after dropping that pre-supposition. Bear in mind that Jesus is never recorded as using that name about the Father. Further, what does it mean to be baptised in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

Just a few thoughts to ponder.
If it were cut n dried, there wouldn't have been 2000 years of arguments on the subject.

Just passing through...

Will Power

Bebu - that was beautifully put.

Has any JW EVER read any jewish history?, any traditional jewish beliefs? If they ever did, they'd see why & how christian thought and beliefs developed the way that they did. The only huge difference is that christians believe Jesus was the messiah and the jews do not!

Early Jewish belief, doctrine, traditions, are so far off the basics of what JWs profess to be what the bible taught it is literally NOT FUNNY. As a christian I am offenced, but if I were Jewish - I'd really be pissed.

Example: the immortal soul - this is but one way the essence is described (sounds like another example of the trinity) - I like the way the hebrews themselves use their own language to say what they mean - unlike the twists the JW head office uses to sound like they know what they are talking about. NOT.

Three Parts http://www.aish.com/literacy/concepts/The_Soul.asp

The soul consists of three parts which are called by the Hebrew names, nefesh, ruach and neshama. The word neshama is a cognate of nesheema, which means literally "breath." Ruach means "wind." Nefesh comes from the root nafash, meaning "rest," as in the verse, "On the seventh day, [God] ceased work and rested (nafash)." (Exodus 31:17).

God's exhaling a soul can be compared to a glassblower forming a vessel. The breath (neshama) first leaves his lips, travels as a wind (ruach) and finally comes to rest (nefesh) in the vessel. Of these three levels of the soul, neshama is therefore the highest and closes to God, while nefesh is that aspect of the soul residing in the body. Ruach stands between the two, binding man to his spiritual Source. It is for this reason that Divine Inspiration is called Ruach HaKodesh in Hebrew.

The neshama is affected only by thought, the ruach by speech, and the nefesh by action.

Some words that come to my mind are: and the word was God, ...there is only one mediator, ....the helper will come, .....Let us make man in our image

Like LT, just passing thru

Will.

Will Power

ooops, 1 more thing gdt:

strongs concordance word # 1943

'hovah = mischief

Ja... as in god of?

Thats why I stay away from made up names. you just never know.

sincerely, will

LET GOD BE TRUE........WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH......

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