Here is an interesting read for you. I found it on a Climbing forum I recently joined. I had to chime in on the subject but didn't say much as I am not the sort to go in and debate the whole doctrine of JW's, but another JW chimed in as well, and so I thought you might find this an interesting read.
To view the actual live topic you need to be a member, but I have pasted the body below.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=124012&v=1
| Topic - Jehovah's Witnesses this weekend? |
|---|
 by - NewBoyoDano  on - 09:50 Tue |
| I'm not very well up on Religion but do Jehovah?s Witnesses believe Easter is a holiday that celebrates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ? The reason I ask is they were knocking on doors in our street. Thought I may be a little inappropriate if their beliefs ignore Easter. |
by - SimonW on - 09:54 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: I think knocking on doors and trying to convert people to some ridiculous idea i.e. religion, is inappropriate at any time of year.
F*ckin cranks!
by - NewBoyoDano on - 09:58 TueIn reply to SimonW: I agree, very strange for them to feel the need to try a "recruit" belivers by knocking on their doors?
I had my Sex Pistols t-shirt on at the time. Needless to say - they didn't stay long! :-P
Odd.
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 10:12 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: I generally find that if you invite them in and say you want to talk to them about your atheist views, you wont see them ever again ;~)
by - NewBoyoDano on - 10:13 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: "is it ALWAYS wrong to worship the devil?"
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 10:43 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Did I say anything about devil worship?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 10:59 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: no - just another subject to mention to them.
what about Mormons? do they belive in the resurrection of christ?
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 11:01 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: I don't really know the specifics of many religions so can't help you with that one.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 11:06 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work i'm finding myself being strangly interest in other religious beliefs for some strange reason.
Perhpas i'll start my own!
Danianity?
by - endless winter on - 11:11 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Should open the door with a gimp mask on and shirt off expossing your nipple rings holding a horse whip! They will either never come back or camp out on your front lawn praying to save your sole. Either way it would be funny. by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 11:11 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Probably wont be any worse than some other weird cults out there.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 11:16 TueIn reply to endless winter: LOL!
Sounds like you've done this........
by - NewBoyoDano on - 11:19 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: that's true - the only difference with my cult is I want charge a "heaven acceptance" fee for £1000 per soul or £3000 per family (discount given on bank holidays only but must be redeemed for 5pm Monday, not to be used in conjunction with any other offers - remuneration value 0.000001p)
by - Tobs at work on - 11:32 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: always tell them to come back once they have read the origin of species. then i will discuss scripture with them. bunch of f*cking numpties.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:12 TueIn reply to Tobs at work: So you like Jehovahs then?
:-)
by - dh 
on - 12:13 TueI was raised in the Jehovah's Witness cult, I left when I was 18. Anyone wants to know what it's really like, drop me a line. It is a cult that preys on weak people, depressed, lonely etc, it destroy's lives, it wrecks children, isolates and forces them into a social vacuum, it covers up cases child abuse (and has been taken to court in many countries for doing so) and it changes policy on certain things every few decades, it has also wrongly predicted the end of the world more times than any other religion in history. Believe me I know how inappropriate it is to bang on peoples doors on Easter, I was dragged out there on peoples doors every weekend and holiday before I could even walk, even Christmas day.
It is quite disturbing.
by - Alan on - 12:16 Tueit has also wrongly predicted the end of the world more times than any other religion in history. >
like when?????????????????????????????????????
by - Tobs at work on - 12:16 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: not a great deal...:-) but, to be fair to them, they are no better or worse than any other evangelising/bigotted religion... by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:35 TueIn reply to dh: i'm glad an ex JW is here. So having been in the thick of it all you feel comfortable saying that it is a load of rubbish? Do JW believe christ was resurrected hence we celebrate easter?
I do find it all very interesting to be honest.
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 12:37 TueIn reply to dh: Goodness! Well done for getting out of that, can't have been easy if your family were involved.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:37 TueIn reply to Alan: I know they predicted the year 2000 would be the end, obviously isn't. I think they've stated this about different yester years...........
we're all still here so it didn't happen. (i don't think, unless the Matrix is true, that's a different post! :-) )
by - Alan on - 12:39 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: > (In reply to dh)
>
> Do JW believe christ was resurrected hence we celebrate easter?
>
> I do find it all very interesting to be honest.
Yes we do.
Biblical and secular history will back this up.The Jewish calendar points to nisan 14 as the date of Jesus Death.This is always around easter time but not exactly the date that its celebrated generally.
Im happy to debate answer anything here, but if someone wants to get into a slanging match, sorry.. lifes to short :)
by - SimonW on - 12:39 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: The world ended for me last year when Leeds got relegated.............they never predicted that either!
by - Alan on - 12:42 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: I can honestly say that's not the case.I've never heard that, and you'll not find it anywhere in the bible, literature or elsewhere
by - JJJJ on - 12:42 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Of course we believe in the Resurrection of Our Lord! It is written in the Holy Book. It is Truth.
Begone sinner, away to the shiny evil fragments of your easter eggs. You will burn for eternity, warming out righteous souls.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:47 TueIn reply to Alan: Hi Alan, so you are a Jehovah's Witness?
One question i've been wanting to ask is - why do you believe our big JC was crucified on a stake rather than a cross? also is it true that if a member of your family was in need of a blood transfusion you would be unable to allow it to happen?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:49 TueIn reply to JJJJ: So JJJJ you a JW?
by - Duncan_S on - 12:51 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Lad at my school was JW and told me that he wasn't allowed to eat things like black pudding as they had blood in. Used to oftern see him the canteen eating the cheap school sausages, which I can't imagin they were to fussy about which parts of the pig went in.
by - JJJJ on - 12:53 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Well, not exactly. i'm more of a JJJJW.
by - Alan on - 12:54 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: yup!! :)
1)Greek word used in bible is " stouros" ( sp).... this is directly translated as stake and not cross.There's loads to back this up too,
The blood issue is certainly an emotive one and I don't think I can really do it justice while in work, and dealing with people at the same time.I'll certainly reply when im home later on though.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:54 TueIn reply to JJJJ: So you're a JJJJJW?
:-)
by - JJJJ on - 12:57 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: uncanny.
i witness myself every waking moment. it's a tough job sometimes, but then again, as Plato observed, the unexamined life is not worth living.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 12:57 TueIn reply to Alan: Do you find your beliefs and religion alienates you somewhat from people/friends?
I know what you mean about being in work - it's fine. One side of my brain is thinking of JC on a stake and the other is on UNIX commands. :-)
by - NewBoyoDano on - 13:01 TueIn reply to Duncan_S: Not eating blood but eating pigs face, balls, feet is ok?
Saying that - i don't eat meat - but i do eat Fish.
by - Alan on - 13:04 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: > (In reply to Alan)
>
> Do you find your beliefs and religion alienates you somewhat from people/friends?
Not at all,since most of my mates are JW's too.I think generally people have misconceptions about things and are unwilling to listen or admit that pehaps what they've been told about us is tosh.If then they are hostile or negative its their tough luck :)
by - JJJJ on - 13:12 TueIn reply to Alan: i have an atheist cousin who's wife became a JW out of the blue just weeks after their marriage. that was certainly tough luck.
by - JJJJ on - 13:13 TueIn reply to JJJJ: oh god, more jet lag. whose whose whose whose.
by - Alan on - 13:20 TueIn reply to JJJJ: Oh!! bet its fun at their house :)
Seriously, if people are prepared to enter in some kind of dialogue then things should be ok... well...........
by - JJJJ on - 13:22 TueIn reply to Alan: actually, after initial difficulties, i was amazed at how well they have managed to accommodate each other. still together 20 years on.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 13:36 TueIn reply to Alan: what about a homosexual friend?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 13:37 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Any mormons here?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 13:38 TueIn reply to dh: What was the turning point for you and why did you feel the need to leave?
by - Alan on - 13:40 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: God created Adam & Eve, not Adam and Steve.
seriously, there are people who I work with how are gay, I treat them in the work place as I would anyone else( as should everyone) but as i follow the bibles guidlines i would hate what their doing, not the person. make sense?
by - ceri on - 13:40 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: the thing that worries me is that JWs dont allow medical treatment, eg vaccinations, for pets. i think its a bit unfair to impose your beliefs on animals. by - JJJJ on - 13:41 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: yes.
by - CJD on - 13:41 TueIn reply to JJJJ: he said mormon, not moron.
by - JJJJ on - 13:42 TueIn reply to CJD: my mistake
by - Alan on - 13:45 TueIn reply to ceri: > (In reply to NewBoyoDano) the thing that worries me is that JWs dont allow medical treatment, eg vaccinations, for pets. i think its a bit unfair to impose your beliefs on animals.
Your havin' a laugh ???? Who on earth told you that?????
by - NewBoyoDano on - 13:48 TueIn reply to Alan: yeah that makes sense. So you wouldn't get any JW's who are gay?
One last question i keep going on and on i know (just interested) Why are JW's the only religion/cult that go and do a door to door thing? Surely if what you belive in you belive is the truth, the word of Jehovah, then people would come to you and your religion?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 13:48 TueIn reply to Alan: My dog will be gutted if he thought that!! Ssshh - don't let him hear you!
:-)
by - JJJJ on - 13:49 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: of the western religions only Judaism is that convinced.
by - Alan on - 13:54 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: > (In reply to Alan)
>
> yeah that makes sense. So you wouldn't get any JW's who are gay?
>
> One last question i keep going on and on i know (just interested) Why are JW's the only religion/cult that go and do a door to door thing? Surely if what you belive in you belive is the truth, the word of Jehovah, then people would come to you and your religion?
Going from door to door is a direct command In the bible.( Jesus did it and told his followers to do it also)If others choose not to follow it they have to ask themselves are they really doing what God requires??
by - CJD on - 13:56 TueIn reply to JJJJ: an orthodox jewish friend once told me that jews have to attempt to turn potential 'recruits' away three times before conceding that they're serious about this Judaism lark. I thought that was quite nice.
by - Boy on - 13:57 TueIn reply to Alan: What about 1973? A large number of witnesses left after the end failed to materialise. A similar even occured in the twenties. On a more recent note, what about the 'this generation will by no means pass away' business? The definition of generation changed over the years as 'this generation' grew old and died. Now they are all gone I hear you have re-defined 'this generation' to mean this general period of history, not exactly what i'd call specific. If you are Gods sole chosen people (as you claim) and God has given you the task of saving as many lives as you can he has done you and all of mankind a great dis-services by making you look very unreliable. Put another way what predictions have you ever had which have proved correct?
by - Alan on - 13:57 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Have a look here if you want :)
http://www.watchtower.org/beliefs_and_activities.htm
by - JJJJ on - 13:58 TueIn reply to Alan: oh no, there are many other questions they could ask themselves instead. like "is it good PR to irritate souls so much that they utterly reject our sect and so burn forever in hell?"
by - JJJJ on - 13:59 TueIn reply to CJD: seems both polite and fair doesn't it?
by - CJD on - 14:00 TueIn reply to JJJJ: I think so, yes.
by - JJJJ on - 14:03 TueIn reply to CJD: and apart from anything else, it gives judaism a sort of elitist desirable status..... the kind of club you might just for once make an exception and be prepared to join.
in many ways not like JW.
by - Alan on - 14:03 TueIn reply to Boy: > (In reply to Alan) What about 1973
that was 1975.
> On a more recent note, what about the 'this generation will by no means pass away' business? The definition of generation changed over the years as 'this generation' grew old and died. Now they are all gone I hear you have re-defined 'this generation' to mean this general period of history, not exactly what i'd call specific.
I can provide you with more than enough info to back up prove this.. but not when im in work.Im more than happy to do so when im home if your really interested.
If you are Gods sole chosen people (as you claim) and God has given you the task of saving as many lives as you can he has done you and all of mankind a great dis-services by making you look very unreliable. Put another way what predictions have you ever had which have proved correct?
"we" dont predict anything.Only highlite what the bible says.
by - CJD on - 14:04 TueIn reply to JJJJ: While in Canada a few years ago, I was impressed by the Amish people, predominantly 'cause they get to ride round in horse-and-cart combos, and the horses and carts have special parking spots at supermarkets. Most good. I reckon I'd look lovely in a bonnet.
by - SimonW on - 14:05 TueIn reply to Alan: > (In reply to NewBoyoDano)
>
> God created Adam & Eve, not Adam and Steve.
>
> seriously, there are people who I work with how are gay, I treat them in the work place as I would anyone else( as should everyone) but as i follow the bibles guidlines i would hate what their doing, not the person. make sense?
But if god created us all, he created gays aswell, so they must be acceptable to him!
by - Alan on - 14:06 TueIn reply to JJJJ: LOL There's numpties and head bangers in every walk of life, you'll just have to trust me on that one... we're not all foot in the door types ;)
by - Tobs at work on - 14:07 TueIn reply to JJJJ: curiously enough, i use the three refusals principle when people want me to take them climbing for the first time. by - JJJJ on - 14:10 TueIn reply to CJD: mmmm you in a long frock and bonnet, yes. but, while i approve of their anti-materialist ways, me in one of them thar face-frame beards, no.
by - JJJJ on - 14:11 TueIn reply to Alan: quite so, and pleased to hear it.
by - CJD on - 14:12 TueIn reply to JJJJ: it might be worth considering next time you're having a shaving dilemma, no?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:13 TueIn reply to Tobs at work: can i come climbing with you?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:14 TueIn reply to Alan: is Satan ruling the world now?
by - Boy on - 14:15 TueIn reply to Alan: Sorry that?s 1975 not 1973
Pages 19-20 of The October 8, 1966 Awake!
?Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. From the most reliable investigations of Bible chronology, harmonizing with many accepted dates of secular history, we find that Adam was created in the autumn of the year 4026 B.C.E. Sometime in that year Eve could well have been created, directly after which God's rest day commenced. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975. This is worthy of notice, particularly in view of the fact that the "last days" began in 1914, and that the physical facts of our day in fulfillment of prophecy mark this as the last generation of this wicked world. So we can expect the immediate future to be filled with thrilling events for those who rest their faith in God and his promises. It means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end."?
Although not explicitly predicting the world will end on X date this and similar articles strongly hinted 1975 would be THE year. Certainly it was enough for many JW families to quit their jobs, changed their lives etc on the basis of what was said.
Alan, I am well aware of the changing of the goal posts regarding 'this generation'. In fact I made a prediction of my own in 1989 to a JW I knew. I predicted that Armagedon would not come within the lifespan of anyone old enough to witness the events of 1914 (as was the prediction (maybe you don't predict now, but you certainly did then) at the time). Who was right? Which leads me to this question. If all you do is highlight what the bible says and you are singularly bad at interpreting what it actually means, why don't you leave people to figure out the meanings for themselves, they stand more than an even chance of doing better than you?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:19 TueIn reply to Boy: hear hear!
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:22 TueIn reply to CJD: do they look like they do in KingPin?
by - CJD on - 14:23 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: I haven't seen Kingpin :-(
by - Alan on - 14:23 TueIn reply to Boy: what did we know about treating cancer, heart disease in 1966?
what did we know about electronics and PC's in 1966?
Things progress do they not?
new understanding is gained??
by - CJD on - 14:25 TueIn reply to Alan: surely it's all about interpretation, no? Although my atheistic (and rather ill-informed) perspective says that it doesn't seem to be too hard to find words in the bible to back up any point of view, if you look hard enough...
by - Alan on - 14:27 TueIn reply to CJD: > (In reply to Alan)
> it doesn't seem to be too hard to find words in the bible to back up any point of view, if you look hard enough...
Fair point, but its when you read the context, you get the fuller unfderstanding, rather than just picking one thing out.
by - JJJJ on - 14:30 TueIn reply to CJD: there's a few good ones though. JC is reported to have opined that there are just two commandments that matter.
Love God.
Do as you would be done by.
i take a fairly abstract view of the former so it's awfully hard to see how cold-calling follows the latter.
by - CJD on - 14:31 TueIn reply to Alan: but aren't there branches of Christianity that embrace just lovin' yo fellow man (metaphorically rather than literally) and being nice to people etc (vast oversimplification, I know), which is straightforward and pretty easy to live by, then more fundamentalist readings of the bible which start to exclude some of us for, for instance, showing our love in different ways? All interpretations taken from the same text.
by - Alan on - 14:35 TueIn reply to JJJJ: > (In reply to CJD)
>
> there's a few good ones though. JC is reported to have opined that there are just two commandments that matter.
> Love God.
> Do as you would be done by.
>
>
He Said the 2 greatest commandments were to love God and to love your neighbour.They cover a vast amount of stuff, and when you think about the principles behind them.. well i'd be here till next week, and i really want to get home tonight.
;)
by - Boy on - 14:36 TueIn reply to Alan: The advancement in knowledge in the fields you mention has come as a result of NEW research providing NEW FACTS based on repeatable experiments. All 'progress' that JWs have made is based on the SAME book re-interpretted in a diffrent way when the previous interpretation failled to materialise. Sounds like trial and error to me! What about all the other interpretations of scripture, such as the blood issue (which has lead to loss of lives for year) where the nature of the subject means nothing can happen to prove you wrong and therefore force a re-appraisal? How can you be so sure these are right if other things that were said were proved wrong. Is it right to encourage people to gamble with their lives when your track record is so poor? Or is it ok because they will benifit for eternity wether you are right or wrong?
by - JJJJ on - 14:37 TueIn reply to Alan: you're absolutely right, it was 'love your neighbour' not do as you would be done by. i apologise for my sloppy memory.
by - SimonW on - 14:38 TueIn reply to Alan: So we can love our neighbours but man-love is out? I am still confused if how god created us all then he does not approve of gays, I mean he created them!!!
by - CJD on - 14:38 TueIn reply to JJJJ: God will smite you.
by - Alan on - 14:38 TueIn reply to Boy: you obviously feel very stronlgy about this, so why not ask next time someone knocks your door????
Im sure you would have ALL your questions answered.
by - JJJJ on - 14:39 TueIn reply to CJD: god has had ample opportunity and excuse to do that, yet has never bothered so far.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:41 TueIn reply to SimonW: Simon - you make simple but very valid points.
by - CJD on - 14:42 TueIn reply to JJJJ: he's biding his time, waiting for his moment. He'll spring out on you when you're using the facilities in a motorway service station, or perhaps when you're trying on new shoes. He'll smite you and before you know it you'll be smitten, with no kleenex to wipe it off, and people will point and stare. It'll be terrible.
mark my words.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:46 TueIn reply to Alan: Hi Alan, is there any predictions we should look out for - anything on the horizon?
by - Boy on - 14:46 TueIn reply to Alan: Actually, I did ask and none of my issues were dealt with. How about you answering the question rather than trying to avoid the issue like all other JWs have when I ever met. What is your opinion on what I just said? by - Boy on - 14:47 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Alan - ""we" dont predict anything.Only highlite what the bible says. " by - Alan on - 14:49 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: chelski to win the leauge.
liverpool for the Cup
:)
by - NewBoyoDano on - 14:50 TueIn reply to Alan: LOL!
Jehovah a football fan.....
by - Alan on - 14:54 TueIn reply to Boy: > (In reply to Alan) Actually, I did ask and none of my issues were dealt with. oh, come?!? you donr really expect me to believe that??
I don't pretend to be a fountain of knowledge or wisdom and im more than happy to answer your questions, however..... im in work at the moment and being Paid;) for just that.So while im able to comment here and there im not able to go into any depth at this moment....
by - SimonW on - 15:02 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: > (In reply to SimonW)
>
> Simon - you make simple but very valid points.
I'm still waiting for an answer from our religious friend.....in fact any christian can answer this if they want.
by - Boy on - 15:04 TueIn reply to Alan: Yes I expect you to beleive that. Just as you are now trying to defer any answer to my queries to another time or another person, so have the witnesses I have met before. Including my mother who had plenty of time to research adequate answers.
I am in no rush. This topic will stay active and available for posts for days if not weeks. Feel free to come back on what I have said in your own time (no e-mail thanks).
by - JJJJ on - 15:04 TueIn reply to SimonW: to make one homosexual could be regarded as unfortunate, to make two begins to look like carelessness. no performance-related bonus for you, god.
by - sandyman on - 15:07 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Alan, whilst i'm impressed at your commitment to your faith and the belief that god has chosen you, i feel compelled to let you know that you actually have horns. Small, i conceed but i imagine their glowing red under that fleecy hat. i also note that you took that pic yourself, what happened to your friends? stake or crucifix? by - Alan on - 15:10 TueIn reply to sandyman: LOL!!
Dam it! thought they were covered.
friend was 100 yards ahead urging me on, saying its only a little bit more..... " i can see the top from here"
by - Duncan_S on - 15:13 TueIn reply to Alan: Is that not stealing from your employer as they are paying you to do a job of work :-)
by - Alan on - 15:14 TueIn reply to Duncan_S: Ooh!! quick :)
Im learning to multi-task,ok.
by - Boy on - 15:19 TueIn reply to Alan: > (In reply to sandyman)
> friend was 100 yards ahead urging me on, saying its only a little bit more..... " i can see the top from here"
Isn't that the story of all Jehovah's Witnesses lives?! ;)
by - ceri on - 15:19 TueIn reply to Alan: the JW lady who used to come into the vets i worked at trying to get us to stock a leaflet about it. Apologies if this is not a "mainstream" thing, but basically the jist was, if animal is going to get ill, thats god's will and you shoudnt stop it? by - Alan on - 15:19 TueIn reply to Boy: Ping!!!! there goes another rib
;)
by - NewBoyoDano on - 15:25 TueIn reply to ceri: thats a little odd isn't it? - and in a vets?
can see people taking that on when their cat has just bathed in a toilet bowl of bleach........
by - Boy on - 15:28 TueIn reply to ceri: The religion has many faults, I don't think fatalism of this sort is one of them however. Sounds like an urban myth to me. by - ceri on - 15:28 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: well, i have to say, the receptionist never accepted her leaflets! by - Duncan_S on - 15:28 TueFrom their webpage... "Six is one short of seven. Would it not be a fitting symbol of something imperfect, or defective, in God's eyes? Yes, indeed!"
I'd like some of whatever he's on....
I think that they read to much in to stuff. When you consider how many times the bible has been translated and changed for political ends, I think it is dangerous to take it literally, that is the road to fundametalism.
by - ceri on - 15:29 TueIn reply to Boy: no, she was a real lady, i saw her. the only possibility is that she wasnt jehovas witness, but another branch of christian, and the receptionist was confused/misinformed when she told me what was going on. by - Alan on - 15:31 TueIn reply to ceri: I love all animals( except Yorkshire terriers)
by - JJJJ on - 15:33 TueIn reply to Alan: what about midges?
what about Mormons?
by - Alan on - 15:35 TueIn reply to JJJJ: sory forgot about those.... :)
Mormons are ok, but couldn't eat a whole one
by - Rothermere on - 15:35 TueIn reply to JJJJ: What about gay necrophiliac mallards?
James
by - Rothermere on - 15:36 TueIn reply to Alan: Moomins?
James
by - JJJJ on - 15:36 TueIn reply to Rothermere: indeed, how could i forget the question keeps me awake most nights?
by - CJD on - 15:36 TueIn reply to Rothermere: they're just finnish hippapotami. Any fule kno that.
by - ceri on - 15:37 TueIn reply to Alan: lol. i'm not sure why anyone loves yorkshire terriers! as i said, it would appear that the anti-vaccination lady was probably not JW, after all. looking at your link above, seems the only medical taboo is blood related?
by - Rothermere on - 15:38 TueIn reply to CJD: There's one on Eastenders and if you have a keen eye you can see she's recently had rhinoplasty.
James
by - Alan on - 15:42 TueIn reply to ceri: Yer prob right there.
by - CJD on - 15:44 TueIn reply to ceri: I think it's Seventh Day Adventists who have an awful lot of specifics to do with medical things.
On a related note, my parents used to employ a JW chap as a draftsman, and he was about to get married. The blokes in the works were teasing him and it transpired that nobody had ever told him about the birds and the bees (he'd had to miss the sex education classes at school) so my mum had to explain it all to him over a cup of tea. She said it was one of her more surreal days at work.
by - NewBoyoDano on - 15:56 TueIn reply to ceri: prolly somenoe who drank dogs blood!
by - NewBoyoDano on - 15:56 TueIn reply to CJD: Thats a brilliant story!
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 15:56 TueIn reply to Rothermere: > There's one on Eastenders...
What, a JW?
by - paddlesat16 on - 15:58 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: oh dear, looks like the JW's have got a foot in the door.....Doh by - Rothermere on - 16:00 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: No.
A moomin.
James
by - Timmd on - 16:02 TueIn reply to SimonW: > (In reply to Alan)
>
>
> So we can love our neighbours but man-love is out? I am still confused if how god created us all then he does not approve of gays, I mean he created them!!!
What gets me about religions being against gay people is that nobody is intrinsinctly harmed if it's two consenting adults (and they enjoy it),it's not immoral if nobody comes off worse,where as robbing somebody is. Not just JWs but other religions as well.
by - Boy on - 16:03 TueIn reply to Alan: What about this apparent paradox? On the one hand JWs claim that in the future paradise on earth (which is supposed to return the earth to the state God intended it to be in), the Lion will lie down with the lamb , ie not eat it. There is also reference to Lions 'eating straw just like the bull' and snakes 'eating dust'. And on the other hand God created huge flesh eating dinosaurs which roamed the earth for millions of years ripping each other to shreads. I'm sure you don't claim to understand all God's mysteries but what possible explanation could reconcile this conundrum? by - NewBoyoDano on - 16:12 TueIn reply to Boy: Boy for PRIME MINISTER!
by - Duncan_S on - 16:15 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: The other thing I never got about JW's was not allowing their kids to go to RE at school. It was really secular anyhow, where they worried that their faith was so weak that 40 mins a week with a bored teacher would make them choose anothr one?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 16:20 TueIn reply to Duncan_S: thats a very good point. Perhaps they would learn something parents didn't want them to learn
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:23 TueIn reply to Duncan_S: We weren't allowed to discuss atheism in RE.
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:24 TueIn reply to Rothermere: Blimey, sounds like it's got more interesting since I last watched it ;~)
by - Alan on - 16:26 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: RE:Religious education .... surely its the parents choice if they want the child to be educated in biblical terms as they see fit? Kids are not stupid. They can make an informed choice when their old enough..i sat at the back of the class and made the teachers job hell by just frowning and shaking my head..... i was then asked to wait in anoth room... RESULT :)
by - CJD on - 16:28 TueIn reply to Alan: the RE lessons in my school involved teaching us about all the different religions. Seemed like quite a logical idea.
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:32 TueIn reply to CJD: I thought so too, might help instill a little religious tollerance. I did object to having Cliff Richard rammed down my throat though ;~)
by - paddlesat16 on - 16:33 TueIn reply to Alan: Can you prove the existence of God? with sufficient proof I might believe. but other than that I don't believe in a higher being. by - Tiggs on - 16:38 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: School took us to see the film that CR made about being a christian - that was child abuse! I have a problem with children being indoctrinated into any religion.
Mine has at various times and of his own choosing declared himself a buddhist and then a Jedi. He argued frequently with his RE teacher at primary school about Jesus much to her annoyance. Currently he has no fixed religion and declares himself to be a techno rave fan!
by - NewBoyoDano on - 16:41 TueIn reply to Alan: For a child to make their own decision surely they should be taught "normal" RE also?
by - Alan on - 16:41 TueIn reply to paddlesat16: OK... LOGICALLY....
consider this: every house has a builder yes?
every PC has a builder.What would you say if someone suggested that a house or even a PC just happened to come together in some big bang? its rubbish isn't it?
Then how much more would the same apply to us? what's the more complicated, a PC , a house, or the human ?body, even this planet, this universe??
Intelligent design requires an intelligent designer??
by - NewBoyoDano on - 16:42 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: Cliff down your throat? What have you been up to?
by - paddlesat16 on - 16:43 TueIn reply to Alan: but can you prove the existence of god? have you met him? are you in fact a witness to his existence? by - Boy on - 16:43 TueIn reply to Topic: I hope Alan will prove me wrong here. One thing I have come to notice consistently, is that JWs are very talkative as long as you stick to the topics they are comfortable with. They even have a publication with pat answers to give if asked slightly awkward questions. However if you ever get down to a real nitty gritty discussion on difficult issues they become much less talkative, i'd goas far as to say very evasive infact. Also they tend to be remarkably unaware of the history of their own religion. Both traits I think stem from the flimsy house of cards which is the belief system around which a JW's entire existence is based. Looking too closely would force the individual to face intractable problems and inconsistencies. Delve too deep into the history and you might find out more than you wanted to, more than 'the organisation' likes to advertise, more than the individual wishes to think about. I know from experience (meeting reasoning informed people whilst going round the streets as a JW youth) that I may well be labelled 'an apostate' for arguing from an informed perspective (am I right Alan?), another handy means of avoiding awkward questions. If so, Alan or any other JW is barred from speaking to me and barred from even reading what I'm writing.
In case you are wondering Alan, I left of my own accord at a young age and have pretty much never had any dealings good or bad with the religion since. I am not and have never been 'dis-fellowshipped', so you are allowed to talk to me, unless you decide I am 'apostate' (whatever that means) ;).
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:44 TueIn reply to paddlesat16: That's kind of what I think too. I also have another problem with the whole god thing. The way I understand it, God is supposed to be some sort of all-powerful, loving, compassionate being. However, the only all powerful being I could imagine that would stand by and watch the kind of suffering that exists on earth would be some sort of saddistic sicko which is completely at odds with what I believe this God should be. Therefore for me, the God that a lot of people believe in cannot possibly exist.
I have no idea if that even makes sense, I struggle to articulate these things.
by - Alan on - 16:44 TueIn reply to paddlesat16: I met doug Scott once.
:)
What do you class as proof?
by - NewBoyoDano on - 16:45 TueIn reply to Alan: The Architect from the Matrix - he was portrayed as a "god" like figure. As in the stereotypical god.
by - paddlesat16 on - 16:48 TueIn reply to Alan: You see, you stumbled at the first hurdle as with all higher being religions. No actual proof of existence!!!! You have to try harder. I've met cliff Philips, but I havn't got proof :-)
by - CJD on - 16:49 TueIn reply to paddlesat16: surely it's more about 'witnessing god's work on earth' than 'witnessing god' in a literal sense?
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:50 TueIn reply to NewBoyoDano: Shudderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
We alked into the classroom to find the video set up and someone switched it on....it was Cliff going on about christianity. Thankfully the teacher was late so someone was able to remove the plug from the video machine.
by - Boy on - 16:50 TueIn reply to Alan: > (In reply to paddlesat16)
>
> OK... LOGICALLY....
> consider this: every house has a builder yes?
> every PC has a builder.What would you say if someone suggested that a house or even a PC just happened to come together in some big bang? its rubbish isn't it?
>
> Then how much more would the same apply to us? what's the more complicated, a PC , a house, or the human ?body, even this planet, this universe??
> Intelligent design requires an intelligent designer??
Fair enough. But what of the logical continuation of this line of argument? What is more complex man or God? Who made God? If God can arise/exist without a creator why can't man. Science has a reasoned and reasonable alternative explanation for the existance of man ie evolution. What is your explanation for the existance of God?
by - Alan on - 16:51 TueIn reply to paddlesat16: ..but what would you class as proof???
by - paddlesat16 on - 16:52 TueIn reply to CJD: but I want actual proof of existence before I commit to a single higher being worship, as opposed to having faith in his/her works on earth. by - Alan on - 16:53 TueIn reply to paddlesat16: do you believe in the wind??
proove it exists?
by - Duncan_S on - 16:55 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: I've always thought this all powerfull being must have quite an ego if he wants lots of people to worship him all the time, rather then getting on with their lifes. If I live a decent life (don't harm others etc) and there is a god, when I die and he won't let me in because I didn't scrape and grovel, then I want no part of it anyway.
by - Boy on - 16:55 TueIn reply to Alan: Give me a mass spectrometer and I will. by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:55 TueIn reply to Alan: Surely wind is just an effect that you feel when air moves from high pressure to low pressure? It's not actually a 'thing'.
by - paddlesat16 on - 16:56 TueIn reply to Boy: I don't have an explanation for God because I don't know that he exists, what I do know is that dinosaurs roamed the earth and we more than likely came from apes, were missing some parts of the jigsaw here and there. but where is the proof that god exists. by - Duncan_S on - 16:57 TueIn reply to Alan: Put some cans out on a windy day and watch them blow over. Chances are they will.
by - Alan on - 16:57 TueIn reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: Its a force though, and we see its effects??
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 16:58 TueIn reply to Duncan_S: Another good point. I just can't rationalise the god that christians believe in with the one that I think would actually exist if one existed.
by - JJJJ on - 17:00 TueIn reply to Alan: > (In reply to paddlesat16)
>
>
>
> Intelligent design requires an intelligent designer??
oh Alan.
think about what natural selection means. think about how it works, how it must work, how it has no option but to work. if complex 'designs' survive and reproduce better than simple ones, then complex 'designs' have no option but to exist.
the existence of natural selection and complex naturally selected animals does not disprove god's existence, but they certainly don't require god to exist themselves.
by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 17:00 TueIn reply to Alan: well I could be wrong but I thought that the movement of air was the force and wind was the effect. Movement of air can be measured by the change in pressure.
by - Boy on - 17:04 TueIn reply to Alan: Yes but the difference is when you see the effect of the wind it is clearly and inalienably the wind. When you see a flower you will claim it as an effect of the force called God, I see the effect of evolution. The end result leaves us no nearer to a proof of God (asking for proof of God is a daft question anyway). by - Mick's Daughter @ Work on - 17:05 TueIn reply to Boy: This is giving me a headache ;~)
I'm off to ponder further on the treadmill.
by - Alan on - 17:08 TueIn reply to Boy: (asking for proof of God is a daft question anyway).
I didnt ask.
:)
I too know have a headache.....
dealing with people today in work makes me consider evolution too... :) or to be more precise.... survival of the dumbest
;)
by - paddlesat16 on - 18:43 TueIn reply to Alan: > (In reply to paddlesat16)
> do you believe in the wind??
>
> proove it exists?
it touches your face when out in the hills and yours and I'm sure a lot of people on here would agree.