Flood and bristlecone pine

by Moxy 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  waiting

  Hi Tri,

  Thanks for the information on the breathing of plants.

  Then again, according to Genesis, plants lived for a Creative Day or so before the earth was exposed to sunlight so maybe that wouldn't have been an issue :-).

  However, Genesis doesn't tell exactly which plants - might have just been scrubs, etc. Of course, those type plants might have disappeared with the dinasaurs, eh?

  But in keeping with WTBTS style of logic - they now teach that the Creative Day isn't necessarily 7,000 years long (according to Thirdson). Now it's more like an "indefinite time period."

  When I was a jw (as of a year ago) - the Flood was a definitive happening. No questions. Of course, I also never read any outside information about earth history - so therefore, nothing to contradict the WTBTS fundy information. Didn't want to get confused about The Truth.

  waiting
• 

  philo

  OK, so the waters weren't so salty back then - I goofed

  I've just seen a fundy way out of this.

  The flood waters covered the world's mountains, but some were more covered than others. Bristle cone mountains got only a splash and heavy drissle.
• 

  Trilobite

  waiting,

  I think those plants died out with the trilobites! However, to be consistent with Genesis the special creation of all plants must have occurred on the same Creative Day, right?

  I seem to recall that the Society once proposed that maybe plants used hydrogen for phtosynthesis instead of sunlight. I can't recall the exact reference but I do remember (as an early teenager) putting a plant in a bell jar with an atmosphere of hydrogen in a dark cupboard to see if it would work. The poor thing was dead in days. That experience put me off biology and my then dream of becoming a veterinarian: it was bad enough killing plants let alone rats and cats and things. I'll not get into how I got out of the JW ban on going to college here.

  The WTS has pulled the ususal stunt with the length of Creative Days. It has simply stopped mentioning the number 7000. To long time Dubs when they see the WTS saying that a Creative Day was "thousands" of years long they just think, if they notice it at all, that the Society is just making a general point and that actually, they really mean 7000 years exactly. New Dubs tend to think that the length of a Creative Day is flexible and very many thousands of years long. Thus, two "thoughts" now co-exist in the organization on this issue and most JWs probably don't even realize it.

  The thing to do is to get some "innocent" dub to ask at a book study exactly how long a Creative Day is. That would generate some fireworks. Indeed, since the 7000 year number is still official dogma, i.e., never having being formally revoked it is still "current truth," I wonder how much trouble a JW could get into by explicitly teaching the 7000 year long Creative Day on every possible occasion. I wonder if one could get oneself DFed for promoting divisions even though one was teaching "current truth." That is Orwellian indeed.

  T.
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  I just can't understand how any plant could be expected to live for more than a year (remember, the Earth wasn't dry in a year--just the mountain tops were exposed by that time) under brackish water several miles deep (remember that the Flood covered the tops of the highest mountains).

  One of the easiest ways to kill plants is to use a salt solution. Just look at the trees and bushes along roadways after a rough winter. Many of them die from the salt used to de-ice the roads.

  Maybe Noah just dug them all up, potted them, and took them with him on the Ark.
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Moxy: There are several issues with a worldwide flood and what would have happened to the trees. Recall that it took just 40 days and nights for the tops of the highest mountains to be covered with water.

  1. The resulting rainfall to meet this enormous water volume would have fallen so fast and furious that it would have created hydronmaic forced beyond anyone's wildest imaginations. For example, huge amounts of water run-off from mountains in the initial statges of rain fall would hit lower waters emerging and cause massive destruction, ripping out everything.

  2. A depth of over 29,000 feet would create such tremendous pressure at or near the surface that nothing could survive. Even at depths of 12,000 feet, where they could the Titanic there is no life with a water pressure exceeding about 8K Psi. At 29,000 ft, the water pressure is going to be much higher.

  3. While submerged for a year, any remaining trees still somehow rooted, see no sun and cannot grow leaves, or do anything, and are killed by salt water.

  4. When the flood waters receded, yes it took a few months, but the massive volume, even at that short time interval must have caused even more hydronamic problems, such that any trees still rooted, but greatly damaged to be too weak to withstand the water motion.

  I published a very detailed presentation of this on H20 about a year or so ago. If you wish, I will re-post it. It deals with all the scientific and logistical problems with such a global flood. - Amazing
• 

  patio34

  This thread shows such a lack of faith. "Ours is not to reason WHY, but to do or die." You weren't there, so how can you question what happened. It was written down by some very ancient people who were much closer to the event of The Flood.

  If you doubt such fundymental cornerstones of the Bible, then how ya gonna accept that the pre-flood folks didn't father children until over 100?

  I tell you, you folks are gonna fall right outta Truth with all this silly questioning. Where's your faith? Of course, it can't be explained and goes contrary to the facts of history and geology and paleontology and biology, etc. Why else would you need faith.

  Du-uh!

  Pat
• 

  willy_think

  Moxy,

  the flood story was a metaphor.

  do you know what happens to a pine forest when beavers build a dam in the middle of it? the trees die within a cupple weeks even if it's just the roots covered by the water.

  the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
• 

  VeniceIT

  Being as Alan is on vacation I will take over his role!!!

  "How could a tree survive underwater for a year, and yet be cut down with a HERRING"??? that is the question of the day!

  Ven

  "The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong, is to let him have his own way."---Josh Billings
• 

  cnn77

  try this at home.....our science experiment!!

  <b>Step 1. </b>
  Get your hands on a Bristlecone seedling/sapling (a really small one).

  <b>Step 2. </b>
  Transplant it into a pot. Allow enough time to see that the seedling is not stunted or dmamaged by the transplant.

  <b>Step 3. </b>
  Now get a large container. Put the pot in the container and then fill the container to the top with water. Please ensure that the top of the plant is well submersed. Keep it that way for 4 weeks.

  <b>Step 4. </b>
  Is it still alive? If so how long does it live for after removing it from the container?

  And the answer is.....
• 

  waiting

  Hey Philo,

  OK, so the waters weren't so salty back then - philo

  Why wouldn't the water be salty? And if proven not so - when did the water of the vast oceans become salty and why?

  Hey Amazing,

  I remember your series of posts - but you use such damned big words......well, maybe I'll do better with my sister, Patio, to 'splain them to me. Would appreciate the reposting - we have so many new ones (and smarter old ones) on the forum.

  Hey Patio

  Y'all ain't rait in thu head out yonder, ya know it? Btw, Californians are considered quasi-yankees to most southerners. Of course, most people in general think of Californians as quasi.

  IMHO, waiting