Ahimelech, Jesus and Inerrancy

Simon

Apologies for plagurism. I don't know where I originally got this from so can't give due credit...

How much did Jesus know about the Bible? Not having a handy edition around, he had to rely on his memory. And how well did Jesus recall an account from the text? Let's see one example:

Mark 2:25, 26 "But he said to them: "Have you never once read

The answer would, as we shall see, be "no, I have never read that."

what David did when he fell in need and got hungry, he and the men with him?

This is wrong. David was alone, as the story in 1 Samuel chapter 21 reveals. Ahimelech was suspicious about this fact, asking "Why is it you are by yourself, and no one is with you?" (v1) David actually lied to the priest, claiming to be on a secret mission for the king, when he in reality was a fugitive on the run. David claimed he would meet the other men later: "And I have made an appointment with the young men for such and such a place." (v2)

How he entered into the house of God

Jesus remembers wrong again. David went to Nob (1 Sam. 21:1), and Ahimelech gave him bread that the
priests had earlier removed from the holy table, as verse 6 goes to great pains explaining. What David received, was "the showbread that had been removed from before Jehovah so as to place fresh bread there on the day of its being taken away". Furthermore, the text does not state that David actually ate the bread, although we can probably assume he did.

in the account about Abiathar the chief priest,

Wrong again. It was in the days of Ahimelech the priest (1 Sam. 21:1). Abiathar enters the story in 1 Sam 22:20, as a son of Ahimelech that escapes from the place where Doeg kills Ahimelech and the other priests. 2 Sam 8:17, on the other hand, tells us that Ahimelech was the son of Abiathar. We can understand that Jesus was a bit confused.

and ate the loaves of presentation, which it is not lawful for anybody to eat except the priests,

Actually, there is no such law.

and he gave some also to the men who were with him?""

As we saw above, there was no men with him.

The WTS often makes much of the fact that the New Testament frequently refers to and quotes from Old Testament texts. The fact is, NT writers frequently misquotes, misapplies and are plain wrong about their references. Many NT writers were not very well versed in the Holy Scriptures, and this applies especially to the synoptical gospels, which helps explain blunders as the ones we can see above.

gsark

I thought the text of" what David did when he fell in need and got hungry, he and the men with him?" could be understood as ..."what David did (alone) when he and the men with him fell in need and got hungry. David would not allow any of his men to assume the risk, only he himself, so he went in alone. (He could have sent someone else)

I Sam 2:20 Ahimelech was the son of Abiathar
II Sam 8:17 Ahimelech was the son of Abiathar

One wonders if this another case, where the righteous son (Ahimelech) does honor to God where the father (Abiathar) did not (very much like Jonathon and Saul. A lot of that going around in those days.) In which case it is good Ahimalech escaped, perhaps David told Ahimelech the truth and warned him about Saul.

One can assume David loaded himself up with bread and took it back to his men.

I couldn't find anything about the showbread being unlawful either, but the account doesn't say it was unlawful by means of the Mosaic Law. Perhaps some additional Jewish law, added on, we all know how that is huh kiddies. (WTB&T anybody)

Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!

Zep

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/

Simon, i think you might have got it from the above site somewhere. I spend hours going Farrel Tills stuff. It's good stuff huh!

Zep

or to be more exact:

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1999/6/996david.htm

AGuest

Hi, Simon... and may you have peace!

May I take a 'stab' at it and respond to you? Thank you.

How much did Jesus know about the Bible?

John 5:39, 40

"Have you never once read...

2 Timothy 3:16

what David did when he fell in need and got hungry, he and the men with him?

See gsark's response, above.

How he entered into the house of God

1 Samuel 22:19

in the account about Abiathar the chief priest,

The verse didn't say, 'in the days of' Abiathar, 'in the ACCOUNT about Abiathar'. Thus, the record had to do with Abiathar's actions, more than that of Abimelech.

ate the loaves of presentation, which it is not lawful for anybody to eat except the priests

Actually, there was such a law.

Exodus 29:33
Leviticus 21:17-22
Leviticus 24:9
1 Samuel 21: 4, 6

and he gave some also to the men who were with him?"

Notice the word 'us'... at 1 Samuel 21:5

I hope this helps... and again, I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SJ

gsark

ahhh, thank you Aguest, about the 'lawful showbread' that would've kept me up half the night.

Simon, you do keep us hopping.

Next question!

Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!

Simon

Ah yes zep ... I recognise that URL - http://www.infidels.org/

Thanks !

JanH

The article Simon posted was written by yours truly and posted on H2O, and also here (on the Main board). I made a correction when it was pointed out to me that there indeed was a law against unlawfully eating the bread, which I had overlooked.

Here is the corrected article:

------------------
How much did Jesus know about the Bible? Not having a handy edition around, he had to rely on his memory. And how well did Jesus recall an account from the text? Let's see one example:

Mark 2:25, 26 "But he said to them: "Have you never once read

The answer would, as we shall see, be "no, I have never read that."

what David did when he fell in need and got hungry, he and the men with him?

This is wrong. David was alone, as the story in 1 Samuel chapter 21 reveals. Ahimelech was suspicious about this fact, asking "Why is it you are by yourself, and no one is with you?" (v1) David actually lied to the priest, claiming to be on a secret mission for the king, when he in reality was a fugitive on the run. David claimed he would meet the other men later: "And I have made an appointment with the young men for such and such a place." (v2)

How he entered into the house of God

Jesus remembers wrong again. David went to Nob (1 Sam. 21:1), and Ahimelech gave him bread that the
priests had earlier removed from the holy table, as verse 6 goes to great pains explaining. What David received, was "the showbread that had been removed from before Jehovah so as to place fresh bread there on the day of its being taken away". Furthermore, the text does not state that David actually ate the bread, although we can probably assume he did.

in the account about Abiathar the chief priest,

Wrong again. It was in the days of Ahimelech the priest (1 Sam. 21:1). Abiathar enters the story in 1 Sam 22:20, as a son of Ahimelech that escapes from the place where Doeg kills Ahimelech and the other priests. 2 Sam 8:17, on the other hand, tells us that Ahimelech was the son of Abiathar. We can understand that Jesus was a bit confused.

and ate the loaves of presentation, which it is not lawful for anybody to eat except the priests, and he gave some also to the men who were with him?""

As we saw above, there was no men with him.

The WTS often makes much of the fact that the New Testament frequently refers to and quotes from Old Testament texts. The fact is, NT writers frequently misquotes, misapplies and are plain wrong about their references. Many NT writers were not very well versed in the Holy Scriptures, and this applies especially to the synoptical gospels, which helps explain blunders as the ones we can see above.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

AGuest

Hi, JanH... and may you have peace, too!

Here, then, is the 'corrected' response:

How much did Jesus know about the Bible?

John 5:39, 40

"Have you never once read...

2 Timothy 3:16

what David did when he fell in need and got hungry, he and the men with him?

See gsark's response, above.

How he entered into the house of God

1 Samuel 22:19

in the account about Abiathar the chief priest,

The verse didn't say, 'in the days of' Abiathar, 'in the ACCOUNT about Abiathar'. Thus, the record had to do with Abiathar's actions, more than that of Abimelech.

ate the loaves of presentation, which it is not lawful for anybody to eat except the priests and he gave some also to the men who were with him?"

Notice the word 'us'... at 1 Samuel 21:5. Indeed, David went in to speak to Abimelech alone, and quite possibly gave Abimelech some 'story' about why he was there. Lying was not a 'sin' under the Law Covenant. The 'command' that many mistranslate to say, "Thou shalt not lie," in TRUTH, states, "Thou shalt not lie ON... or 'bear false witness AGAINST'... thy brother or fellowman." Thus, Samuel most likely told his men to wait OUTSIDE of town, and went in alone; however, it still could have been chronicled "he, and the men with him," with regard to exactly who ate the showbread.

I hope this helps... and again, I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SJ

waiting

MY GAWD, ZEP!!!!!!!!!

Is that REALLY the one-and-only ZEP?

You Australian fool - where ya' been hangin' out besides Infidels site?

Sure have missed your wit and sarcasm.

still here waiting.

Ahimelech, Jesus and Inerrancy

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