The next step in chipping away at Mr.elder relative

by SeymourButts 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • SeymourButts
    SeymourButts

    So, as you know, last weekend I provided some info to an elder relative of mine regarding 607.

    I am going to give him a couple weeks to research everything I brought up to him. I don't expect him to fully accept what I said, but there is no doubt that there will be some questions in his head as to why things don't add up.

    The next step is to build on that slightest bit of doubt by showing him some lies. I know what publications he has, so I will put some more doubt in his noggin with some of these quotes.

    ?Do you believe in the second advent of the Lord?? I asked the young man [a WTS colporteur in 1928] who came to the door.
    ?Christ?s second advent was realized in 1914? he answered.
    In astonishment, I told him that was impossible. ?You should read this book,? he said, handing me The Harp of God. I was baptized the following year, March 23, 1929...
    (WT 1988 May 1 p. 22)

    Nope....didn't happen. Harp of god claims 1874 as the year of Christs return. It wasn't until 1930 that 1914 became the return. This could NOT have happened the way they say it did.

    For over thirty years before that date and for half a century since, Jehovah?s witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of ?the appointed times of the nations? and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule. (Luke 21:24)
    (WT 1966 February 15 p. 103

    Nope.....still using 1874 at this point.........30 yrs prior to 1914.

    He [a WTS colporteur of 1921] explained to me that Jesus had been present since 1914, invisible to man. This was the most thrilling news I had ever heard... In late 1921 I was transferred back to England, and in the spring of 1922, I was discharged from the army.
    (WT l990 September 1 p. 11
    )


    more bs.

    Oh the tangled web they weave.

    Piece by piece....chip by chip.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    SB

    easy goes it - the standard issue elder will not research anything except in the WTS pubs themselves - and oh well mistakes happen is the general feeling -

    Be careful if u are still in and not wanting out - they are watching for apostates all the time now.

    Jeff

  • avishai
    avishai

    I'd hit 'im with the UN stuff next

  • Whiskeyjack
    Whiskeyjack

    Good luck Seymour!

    I don't think you'll make any progress despite having it all spread out for him but I would recommend that you continually and repeatedly appeal to his sense of intellectual honesty and fairness (what the JW's at least preach to people when examining their faith's teachings). Do this over and over when he tries to be illogical or use emotional appeals or shows disdain for the basic thinking responsibility that every person has. Make him practice what he's supposed to be preaching!

    W. (a tape recording might be useful for later review)

  • BrendaCloutier
    BrendaCloutier

    Goodonya!

  • orangefatcat
    orangefatcat

    Maybe you can show him this

    http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/brochure.htm

    http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/aboutus.htm

    Have a good time showing him how the JWs GB have lied to its people and how as part of the criterra to be a affiliated member one much follow the critera of the UN including the oath of the charter of the UN.

    I hope this will help you out.

    regards Orangefatcat

  • PaNiCAtTaCk
    PaNiCAtTaCk

    he will just revert back to the new light belief! My how the org has grown since those things were published the light is certainly getting brighter. To get a strong elder to think you basically have a couple of choices that might raise an eyebrow. These are 607 and the UN thing and even then he will probably be satisfied with the "we had to join to have access to the library" excuse. A person has to already see that something just doesnt seem right or all the negative things that you come up with about the org will simply bounce off of him or make his beliefs stronger. He probably was confused about the 607 info that you shared with him and then realized that obviously satan had gotten to him through you. He may tell you to get lost.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    he will just revert back to the new light belief!

    Agreed, but New Light? doesn't justify lying about the old light. Clearly no Bible Student in the 1920s was preaching that Jesus returned in 1914. A 1990s Watchtower that says otherwise is lying. It's fine with me that in the past JWs believed something different, but it's not fine that they pretend otherwise. It's clearly a deliberate fabrication and if the elder in question is willing to be intellectually honest, he will recognise it as such.

  • googlemagoogle
    googlemagoogle

    that's a great strategy. go for it.

    the un-scandal doesn't always work, this probably very much depends on where you live. it didn't work on me when i first read about it. i just thought something along "the brothers sure know what they are doing".

    it's a much better approach to show that they are not honest about their past. because that shakes the whole "holy slave class" dependance, after that you can come along with the UN stuff if you want. because if they are not honest about their past, how can i be sure they are honest about what they are doing now behind the scenes.

    making a jw wake up is all about destroying his belief in the slave-doctrine. when the seed begins to grow i'd offer an alternative (and more logical) exegesis of matthew 24:45 / luke 12:42...

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    I suggest sticking to one subject. Know it well. Don't get sidetracked. 607/587 is a goody.

    If you can convince him that 607 is wrong you may be able to get his other brain cell working.

    Good luck

    Chris

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