Daniel's Prophecy

by startingover 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

startingover

Since I quit going to meetings some years ago, I was not familiar with the 1999 "Pay attention to Daniel's Prophecy" book. Because of my interest in 607 etc. I decided to read it. I found it interesting that the second chapter is spent trying to refute claims that the book was written after the fact. They even used their ridiculous argument that so far undiscovered evidence will prove it to be true. I didn't think their arguments held much weight but then again I no longer believe the bible is the inspired word of god.
My wife is a loyal dub and in our discussions she has brought up the image of Dan ch 2 and how the JW interpretation makes so much sense to her. Although I can refute the 607 argument (for myself but not with her unfortunately) I have never had too much of an answer for the image dream.
In the "Daniel" book there seems to be a change I was not aware of. I remember the feet of clay and iron were the anglo-american world power, and I thought that brought it up to our day, but now there is something else below that in the illustration on p56, the "politically divided world in the time of the end". That may not be new but it's new to me.
As I read I wondered what other interpretations of that there might be. So I began a search. It seems most interpretations are the same up to the legs being Rome. Below that there is varied interpretations, from the antichrist, to the European Union, even going so far as it interpret the 10 toes as 10 provinces of Rome.
As I searched the web about interpretations of ch 4, I found some real interesting interpretations of the 7 times. Here is one http://elijah.com/
I thought the interpretation given regarding the gentile times made more sense than the WT interpretation. They use the exact length of a solar year at 365.242 for their calculations instead of rounding it off to 360 to make it fit. And it ends up at the exact date of Israel's being recognized as a state May 14, 1948. They pin it down to the very day using exact figures, interesting.
Anyway, just wondering it anyone else had seen this and what they thought about it. How about you, Scholar?
Leolaia

Here is a great "Keep It Simple Stupid" explanation of Daniel that explains what the book is about, according to most critics:
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bible/timeoftheend.shtml
jula71

Here is the newest one I've heard my brother (hard-core Elder) use. The iron and clay feet is still the Anglo-American powers but they are composed of the right vs. left, Rep. vs. Dem......... pretty interesting twist. His point was never before have the two parties been so divided. (must have forgotten the duels and civil war in the past) I'm waiting for the "new light" from the WTBTS too come out .
Leolaia

The idea that Daniel's visions refer to Rome represents a first century BC reinterpretation of the book, following the Roman invasion of Judea in 63 BC. This interpretation continued through the first century AD, and the synoptic gospels' allusions to Daniel's unfulfilled prophecies apply language that originally referred to the actions of Antiochus IV Epiphanes to contemporary Romans. The Great Vision of ch. 11-12 clearly describes Antiochus' career in exquisite detail up to December 164 BC, and assumes that it would be immediately followed by the Messianic kingdom and the resurrection of the dead. It was the failure of this prophecy that has led to continuous reinterpretation of the book for centuries and now millennia to contemporary events.
When we compare the different visions side by side, we see that they are all talking about the same thing -- the flow of history from the Neo-Babylonian period (the time when the "Daniel" personage was depicted as having lived), through the Median and Persian kingdoms, through the Greek kingdom of Alexander the Great and its division among his generals, and the tenure of the squabbling Ptolemies and Seleucids which culminate in the career of Antiochus Epiphanes, who commits the greatest insult against God and whose kingdom ends in ruin, replaced by God's dominion. We find that the same language, the same symbols and metaphors, are used across the various visions to refer to the same things:
"Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, for iron breaks and smashes everything, and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay" (Daniel 2:39-43).
"Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws, the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time " (Daniel 7:19, 23-25).
"I saw [the goat] attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering his two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against him; the goat knocked him to the ground and trampled on him, and none could rescue the ram from his power. The goat became very great, but at the height of his power his large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven. Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it . It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground. Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled-the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the abomination that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?' He said to me, 'It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings ; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated'...The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people" (Daniel 8:7-14, 21-24).
"The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary . The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' [i.e. for 3 1/2 years] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him" (Daniel 9:26-27).
"Three more kings will appear in Persia, and then a fourth, who will be far richer than all the others. When he has gained power by his wealth, he will stir up everyone against the kingdom of Greece. Then a mighty king will appear, who will rule with great power and do as he pleases. After he has appeared, his empire will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heaven. It will not go to his descendants, nor will it have the power he exercised, because his empire will be uprooted and given to others....[The king of the North] will determine to come with the might of his entire kingdom and will make an alliance with the king of the South. And he will give him a daughter in marriage in order to overthrow the kingdom, but his plans will not succeed or help him ....His successor will send out a tax collector to maintain the royal splendor. In a few years, however, he will be destroyed, yet not in anger or in battle. He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty...He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. He will also invade the Beautiful Land... His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him....The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place... From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days" (Daniel 11:2-4, 17, 20-21, 36, 40-41; 12:11-12).
(1) fourth kingdom = fourth beast = goat = kingdom of Greece, and specifically its first king. The fourth kingdom in the statue is of IRON, the fourth beast has IRON teeth. The fourth kingdom CRUSHES, the fourth beast CRUSHES. The fourth beast TRAMPLES UNDERFOOT, the goat TRAMPLES the ram. The goat was very GREAT at the height of its POWER, the "mighty king" of Greece "rules with GREAT POWER".
(2) This kingdom is then "broken" and "divided" into four (cf. Alexander's four generals) or two (the southern Ptolemies and the northern Seleucids). The kingdom of iron and clay is a DIVIDED kingdom. The fourth beast will give rise to TEN KINGS out of the original kingdom who immediately precede Antiochus Epiphanes (e.g. the line of the Seleucids). The goat has his horn BROKEN off and the kingdom is DIVIDED TO THE FOUR WINDS. In the case of the "kingdom of Greece," Alexander's empire is BROKEN UP and PARCELED OUT TO THE FOUR WINDS. All these allusions are to the same thing. And since ch. 11 makes it clear that this BREAKING of the kingdom is the kingdom of Alexander the Great, the fourth kingdom cannot refer to a still later Roman empire.
(3) The two descendent kingdoms cannot form an alliance restoring the original kingdom. In the statue vision, the kingdom of iron and clay is described as a MIXTURE and will not remain UNITED, any more than iron mixes with clay. In the great vision of ch. 11, the kings of the two kingdoms of the North and South will try to MAKE AN ALLIANCE and MARRY between the kingdoms, but these efforts are really to overthrow each other's kingdoms. Both are clear references to the failed attempts at unifying the two Hellenistic kingdoms.
(4) another horn = little horn = another king = Antiochus Epiphanes. In the vision of the four beasts, AFTER THEM, ANOTHER KING WILL ARISE. In the vision of the goat, OUT OF THEM came ANOTHER HORN that starts out SMALL but grows, meaning that a stern-faced king WILL ARISE. In the great vision, the earlier kings are SUCCEEDED by a CONTEMPTIBLE PERSON (Antiochus Epiphanes) who starts out NOT AS ROYALTY but will gain power.
(5) This king makes war with the surrounding countries. In the vision of the four beasts, this king will SUBDUE THREE KINGS. In the vision of the goat, he causes astounding DEVASTATION in THREE areas: the SOUTH, the EAST, and the BEAUTIFUL LAND. In the great vision of ch. 11, this king INVADES MANY COUNTRIES and INVADES THE BEAUTIFUL LAND. These are allusions to the military career of Antiochus Epiphanes.
(6) This king ceases oblation and sacrifice, desecrates the Temple, and blasphemes the Most High. In the vision of the four beasts, this king SPEAKS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH, OPPRESSES the SAINTS, and changes LAWS. In the vision of the goat, this king took away DAILY SACRIFICE, took the HOST of the SAINTS, and set up the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the SANCTUARY. In the vision of the 70 weeks, this king DESTROYS the SANCTUARY, PUT AN END TO SACRIFICE and OFFERING, and set up the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the TEMPLE. In the great vision, his army DESECRATES THE TEMPLE, sets up the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, ABOLISHES DAILY SACRIFICE, and EXALTS HIMSELF AGAINST GOD. All of these allusions refer to the same thing. The Watchtower interpretation of ch. 7, however, applies some of these actions to Jesus Christ himself! (i.e. putting an end of sacrifice and offering).
(7) The duration of this desecration is for about 3 1/2 years. Thus, in the vision of the four beasts, the saints will be handed over to him for A TIME, TIMES, AND HALF A TIME. In the vision of the goat, the desecration and cessation of daily sacrifice is to last 2,300 MORNINGS AND EVENINGS, or 1150 days (= 3 years and 55 days). In the vision of the 70 weeks, the desecration starts at the MIDDLE of the last SEVEN years -- that is, for 3 1/2 years. In the great vision, it is 1,290 DAYS to 1,330 DAYS from the time daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination is installed. Again, the same motif occurs across the different visions. Historically, it was about 3 1/2 years between the time Antiochus desecrated the Temple in 167 BC to 164 BC when the Temple was restored.
While there are minor imprecisions here and there in the details (e.g. 13 Seleucid and Ptolemy kings preceding Antiochus IV instead of the round 10), all five of these visions corroborate each other in describing the same thing in similar language. Even without looking at the evidence for the earlier kingdoms of Media and Persia, the information about the fourth kingdom and its divided iron-and-clay successor can only best fit in the details the events of the Grecian/Macedonian empire of Alexander the Great and his Seleucid and Ptolemy successors. The exquisite detail in the Great Vision, which can only refer to the Seleucids and Ptolemies and the exploits of Antiochus IV, especially corroborates the identities of the "horn" kings of the fourth beast and the horns of the goat in the other visions. There is also no room for another kingdom to follow the Seleucids and Ptolemies. In ch. 2, the kingdom of iron and clay is destroyed by the Messianic Kingdom, and in the great vision, the death of Antiochus IV is followed by Michael "standing up" (e.g. assuming power) and the commencement of the resurrection. Since these visions are mutually linked by the same themes mentioned above, only by shifting them to an inappropriate kingdom (e.g. the Romans) or by dissolving these mutual links would there be room for another kingdom -- let alone many more.
startingover

Leolaia,
Thanks for the above. That link has a lot of great stuff in it. I will have to print out the last post and take it home tonight to try to absorb it.
Jula71,
It seems to me looking at the illustration in the book that was the twist they were now putting on it.
peacefulpete

There are a few complications. In the "vision" of the ram and goat the ram is said to depictb the "kings of Media and Persia" as a joint venture. Also the lions den story has Darius the 'King' being bound by the Law of the 'Medes and Persians' again in recognition that the Median empire was under Persian domination by the time of the setting of the story. This has been used to support the idea of a joint kingdom being represented by the bear that is raised up on one side was a joint kingdom that was followed by Greece and then another (Rome).
Leolaia

I don't see much of a complication. The vision in ch. 8 focuses on the military conflict between Greece and the Persian Empire; this event (from 336 to 331 BC) happened long after the Chaldean kingdom fell into the hands of the Medes (cf. Daniel 5:31, 9:1-2, 11:1), then divided between the Medes and Persians (cf. 5:28). In the logic of Daniel, the Chaldean kingdom first had Medean rulership immediately after its fall, then it was ruled next by "Cyrus the Persian" (cf. 6:28, 10:1), at which point it is now called "the Persian kingdom" (cf. 10:13), and in 11:2 there is a succession of three more kings of "Persia". It was during Darius the Mede's reign that he appointed three administrators and 120 satraps "over his kingdom for the various parts of the kingdom" (6:1-2), and the satraps themselves posed some threat to the power of the king (6:2) and it was from among the administrators that Darius considered finding someone "to set over the whole kingdom" (6:3). The rulership of local governors explains the reference to the "laws of the Medes and the Persians" in the same chapter (cf. 6:8, 12, 15) and how the Chaldean kingdom was divided between the Medes and the Persians and ruled jointly between the Medes and the Persians (cf. the "two arms" of the second kingdom in ch. 2). At the executive level, however, we have first the kingdom of "Darius the Mede" and then later the kingdom of "Cyrus the Persian" and his successors.
The visions themselves confirm this. The dream vision of ch. 2 focuses on the succession of kingdoms and thus treats the Medean and Persian kingdoms separately. The second kingdom of silver "not as great" as the Chaldean kingdom is said to rise "after you (i.e. the Chaldeans)" (2:39), and it is followed itself by the bronze kingdom which "will rule the whole world". The Persian empire clearly was far greater than the Neo-Babylonian empire both in territory and duration; it is the short-lived kingdom of Darius the Mede (again within the logic of Daniel) that was "not as great" and which immediately followed the Chaldean kingdom. The Persian empire was elsewhere described as "ruling the whole world" in the OT; cf. the allusion to Xerxes in Esther 1:1 "whose empire stretched from India to Ethiopia and comprised one hundred and twenty-seven provinces". The "two arms" of the kingdom of silver, as noted above, likely pertains to the administrative combined rulership of the Medes and Persians during the reign of Darius the Mede; afterwards, from the time of "Cyrus the Persian" onward the kingdom was dominated by the Persians (i.e. the single torso of bronze). The fourth kingdom of iron that follows it has to be the Greek empire of Alexander the Great, for it crushes and breaks the "earlier kingdoms" (cf. the conflict between the Medes and Persians with the Greeks in ch. 8) and it then is "split in two" (2:41) into the two kingdoms of the Seleucids and the Ptolemies that is described throughout much of ch. 11. If a later Roman empire is posited as the fourth kingdom of iron, the obvious parallels between ch. 2, 7 (the statue vision of the four kingdoms and the vision of the four beasts) and ch. 11 are ignored.
In ch. 7, the four beasts parallel the four kingdoms in ch. 2 and similar language is used to describe both; e.g. the "iron" teeth of the fourth kingdom, the fact that it "crushes", etc. Just as the second kingdom was inferior to the Chaldean kingdom in ch. 2, so the second beast of the "bear" was less powerful and majestic than the "lion" (7:5), and the description of it being awkwardly "raised on one of its sides" likely recalls the brief Medean rule over the Persians during the tenure of "Darius the Mede". The ravenousness of the bear in Daniel 7:5 is reminiscent of depictions of the Medes in the OT (cf. especially Isaiah 13:15-18, which describes the Medes as slaughtering everyone they can without mercy; cf. also Jeremiah 51:11-28). As for the third beast, the leopard, it reigned in its "four heads" until the rise of the fourth kingdom which "crushed and trampled" what came before it; the "four heads" are most likely the four kings of the Persian empire in 10:2. The fourth king is described as having "grown powerful" and challenging "all the kingdoms of Greece" (10:2), which recalls the third beast with the four heads being "given power" (7:6) and the third kingdom "ruling the whole world" (2:39). The fourth beast is then described in 7:7, 19 as having "crushed" (mdqh) and "trampled underfoot" (brglyh rpsh) what remained of the earlier kingdoms (that is, the Medes and the Persians); this is exactly how the "he-goat" (representing Alexander the Great and the Greek kingdom) is represented in ch. 8: as "trampling underfoot" (rms, cognate of Aramaic rps in 7:7, 19) the Medes and Persians. Similarly, the fourth kingdom in the statue vision of ch. 2 "breaks all the earlier kingdoms" (2:40) that had come before (e.g. the Chaldean, Medean, and Persian kingdoms), as if they were all still existing at the time of the fourth kingdom; like the future kingdom of God, it "absorbs all the previous kingdoms" (2:44). This fourth kingdom of iron in 2:40 also "crushes" (mhdq), the same word applied to the fourth beast in 7:7, 19, and "breaks everything into pieces" just as the he-goat "broke both the horns" of the ram (8:7). These motifs are thus paralleled between the visions. Finally, corresponding to the last divided kingdom of iron and clay in ch. 2 is the line of ten horns (plus the final "little horn" between them) that "will rise from this kingdom (i.e. the fourth kingdom)" (7:23), which corresponds also to the "sprouting" of the Seleucid and Ptolemy kingdoms "rising from his [=Alexander's] nation" in the vision of the he-goat (8:22). The "little horn" that arises in ch. 7 is the same as the "rise of the king, a proud-faced ingenious-minded man" in ch. 8. There is thus a nice symmetry between all the visions.
Moreover, in the vision of the ram and the he-goat in ch. 8, the succession of the Medes by the Persians is alluded to in v. 3: "[The ram] had two horns; both were tall, but one taller than the other (i.e. the Persians having authority over the Medes), and the one that rose the higher was the second (i.e. the first being the Medes)". So at the time of the conflict between the he-goat and the ram, the Persians had already risen to dominance over the Medes, so that in ch. 10 and 11 we only encounter references to "the kings of Persia" and "the Persian kingdom" at the time of the conflict with Greece though the Medes had been absorbed into the Persian kingdom. Since the author already referred to the Greek kingdom as crushing "all earlier kingdoms" (2:40) and 2:44 interprets this metaphor as "absorbing all the previous kingdoms", the ram represents the kingdoms of the Medes and Persians but in the present is ruled by the Persians (the horn taller than the other) who at some time in the past "rose higher" than the first horn (i.e. the Medes). Thus there is a distinction between an earlier time (i.e. that of Darius the Mede) when the kingdom was ruled executively by a Medean king with administrative power shared between the Medes and Persians (cf. ch. 6), and the later time (i.e. the four Persian kings of ch. 11) when Persians ruled the kingdom and Medea was just a province of the Persian empire.
The language however was just ambiguous enough for this distinction to be overlooked entirely by the first century BC, allowing for the Medean and Persian kingdoms to be lumped together into one monolithic "Medo-Persian empire", placing the fourth kingdom into the present, which also put the figure of the "little horn" still in the future and the "time of the end" still to be fulfilled. This salvages a prophecy that otherwise failed to come to pass as expected.
Leolaia

Another relevant fact is that the four-kingdom model is not original to the author of Daniel, but is an old Near Eastern motif with examples going back at least to the 7th century BC (see the critical commentaries), and so the author was constrained to fit this schema into the period from the Neo-Babylonian period onward. This might explain the artificiality of the distinction between the Median kingdom (shared with Persians) and the Persian kingdom (having absorbed the Medians), as well as some of the unhistorical details of the book, particularly in the invention of the reign of "Darius the Mede" who ruled for some time before "Cyrus the Persian"; in history and in (Deutero)-Isaiah, Cyrus was the one responsible for the fall of Babylon (with his reign commencing right away) but in Daniel his reign is delayed for an unspecified amount of time to squeeze in the kingdom of "Darius the Mede". The present arrangement of the apocalyptic visions may also reflect adaptations made by the author/redactor of earlier material that likely circulated independently (cf. the quasi-Daniel material in the Dead Sea Scrolls, e.g. 4Q243-245, 4Q552-553), which could account for motifs (such as in the vision of the four beasts) that are more obscure.
IronGland

The book of Daniel is certainly one of the most interesting books of the whole Bible. In just a few chapters it contains a myriad of teachings,
information and the most important prophesies of all times. Daniel was a
careful observer of the word of wisdom, and it was because of this that
he received great knowledge and marvelous revelations. Although he had
admiration for the heathen king he served, yet he preferred to face
death rather than worship his master as a god. His integrity is equal to
that of the most famous Biblical heroes, and it is very easy to
understand why he had so many great experiences. In this article I will
discuss only a couple of his prophesies which pertain the ONE church.
For me, everything began fifteen years ago. I was praying to the Lord to
enlarge my testimony of the church, especially regarding my mission
After my 3 ceremonial days of prayer I found a small, unknown booklet speaking
about Daniel's prophesies. As I began to read it I thought, "How can
this unknown booklet of another church, help me to enlarge my
testimony?" Yet, despite this concern, I felt something urging me to
continue reading.
The scriptures discussed in this pamphlet were from the book of Daniel,
chapters 8 and 9. In these two chapters there are two very interesting
prophesies. One is related to seventy weeks in relationship to the
mission of the Messiah. The other one speaks about 2300 evenings and
mornings related to the last days. Since we know that the year in which
the prophecy was given is 457 b.c., it is therefore possible for us to
arrive at the dates in which the prophecy would have had to been
fulfilled. Fortunately we also have another way to determine the same
dates. (It is always better to have two or three witnesses, especially
if you are speaking about the scriptures.)
However, before we examine these prophecies, it is important for us to
know that a "day" as used in Biblical prophecies, many times means a
year. How do we know this? Because it is explained in Ezekiel 4:6.
Moreover, we will see that the prophecies of Daniel will be fulfill if
we count the days like years. This is especially true of the second
prophecy which refers to the end of the times, because it couldn't be
fulfilled if we use "days" instead of "years." This is also the same for
the first prophesy related to the Messiah.
But before I explain these prophecies, I need to clarify that these are
my own opinions and are not the official doctrines of the ONE church. In
fact, you won't find any of these ideas anywhere in the books of the
church, although this study has been done by other people not related to
the church. It is for this very reason, that I find this subject a lot
more interesting, because they fit perfectly in connecting the
historical events of the ONE church with the prophecies of the Bible.
In the eighth chapter of Daniel we read: "In the third year of the reign
of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after
that which appeared unto me at the first. And I saw in a vision; and it
came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is
in province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of
Ulai. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood
before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high;
but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. I saw
the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no
beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver
out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great. And
as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face
of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a
notable horn between his eyes. And he came to the ram that had two
horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in
the fury of his power. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was
moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two
horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he
cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none
that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Therefore the he goat waxed
very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for
it it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out
of one of them came forth a little horn, toward the south, and toward
the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the
host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and the stars to the
ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the
Prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and
the place of his sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him
against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down
the truth to the ground; and it practiced and prospered. Then I heard
one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which
spake, how long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and
the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host
to be trodden under foot? and he said unto me, Unto 2300 days then shall
the sanctuary be cleansed."
Then the scripture goes on to specify that Gabriel is sent from God to
explain to Daniel the vision. He states: " Understand, O son of man: for
at the time of the end shall be the vision....and he said, behold, I
will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation:
for at the time appointed the end shall be."
At this point Gabriel explains the symbols of the animals and the horns,
but I will not comment about these because they are not related to the
purpose of this topic. The main point of this search is to fix the
starting date of the 2300 years and then find the ending date of this
prophecy.
It is interesting to note, as Gabriel points out, that the vision is
true and it is referring to something that is still a long way off in
the future. He also says, "keep the vision secret." In fact he explains
all the symbolism about the animals and horns, but it doesn't give any
clue regarding the vision of the evenings and mornings. He only states
that the sanctuary will be cleansed.
Before I comment about this part of the book of Daniel, it is first
important for us to read Daniel 9:21-27 which tells us, "Yea, whiles I
was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the
vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about
the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with
me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and
understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment
came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved:
therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy weeks
are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the
transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation
for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up
the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and
understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and
to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and
threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall
even in troubles times. And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut of, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince
that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end
thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolation
are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one
week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall
make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall
be poured upon the desolate."
Daniel was pondering the prophecy of Jeremy at the beginning of chapter
9. He was thinking that the period of the vision that refers to the
purification of the sanctuary meant a longer period of the Jews being in
exile. Daniel prayed to God in behalf of his people, confessed the sins
that provoked the destruction of Jerusalem and the exile and asked God
to rebuild the holy city and its holy temple. While Daniel was praying,
Gabriel, whom he had seen in another vision, came and told him,: "Know
therefore and understand." Then Gabriel explained to him that the vision
related to the Messiah and not to the exile of the Jews.
The beginning of both these prophesies starts at, "From the going forth
of the commandment to restore and build up Jerusalem." Cyrus published
an edict in the 536 b.c.which empowered the Jews to go back to their
homeland (see Ezra 1:1-4.) In the 520.b.c. Darius promulgated an edict
that gave the Jews the authority to rebuild the Temple (see Esdra
6:1-12.) Afterwards, in 457 b.c., Artaserse, in the seventh year of his
kingdom, issued a third edict that insured the Jews would have full
autonomy (see Ezra 7.) This edict also gave Esdra the legal authority
to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple (see Ezra 9:9.)
The scripture says that from this point until the Messiah's death,
seventy weeks will pass, or, in other words, 490 years. Therefore from
457b.c., adding 490 year we go directly to the 34 a.c. I don't need to
make any comment about this because it is too clear that the prophecy
was fulfilled to the letter in Jesus Christ. Therefore, I will go
directly to the other prophecy.
We have two ways of establishing the ending date of the second vision.
The first is, we have the same beginning date of 457 b.c. From this we
can simply add 2300 years, which takes us to 1844 a.c.. The other method
is, we can subtract 490 years from 2300 years and add 34 (that is the
difference of time between the two related visions) and the result is
the same -- 1844.
Now I am sure the big question on your mind is, "What does all of this
mean?" That is a good question. In fact, I had the same thought. The
Mormon church was restored on 1830a.c. which would make it seem
improbable that the date of 1844 is relevant. However, we have to
remember the words of the prophecy -- "After the Sanctuary will be
cleansed."
How it is possible to clean a sanctuary?
In Hebrew 9:18-22 we read: "Whereupon neither the first Testament was
dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all
the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of
goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the
book, and all the people, saying, This is the blood of the testament,
which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both
the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all
things are by the law purged with blood: and without shedding of blood
is no remission."
The sacrifices cleansed a soul from their sins (see verse 13) because
they were in the likeness of the Atonement. More than that, all the
prophets gave their blood to sanctify their mission, including Christ.
In fact Paul in the same chapter explains this identical concept. He
wrote, "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the
death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead:
otherwise it is not strength at all while the testator liveth. whereupon
neither the first testament was dedicated without blood" (verses 16-18).
.
Let's go now to D&C, section 135. It reads, "He lived great, and he
died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the
Lord's anointed in ancient times, he sealed his mission and his works
with his own blood; and so did his brother Hyrum." After this came the
verse I had never understood before. It says, "The Testators are now
dead and their testament is in force."
The apostasy was over the moment the two testators sealed their
testimony with their own blood, just as the Hebrew law required.
Leolaia

John Day has a discussion of this subject in God's Conflict with the Dragon and the Sea (1985), pp. 151-157, and gives some useful references to other works on this subject:
H. H. Rowley, Darius the Mede and the Four World Empires in the Book of Daniel (2nd ed., Cardiff, 1959).
J. W. Swain, "The theory of the four monarchies: Opposition history under the Roman empire," Classical Philology, 25 (1940), pp. 1-21.
David Flusser, "The four empires in the fourth Sibyl and in the book of Daniel," Israel Oriental Studies, 2 (1972), pp. 148-175.
G. F. Hasel, "The four world empires of Daniel 2 against its Near Eastern environment," Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 12 (1979), pp. 17-30.
The Babylonian Dynastic Prophecy (4th-early 3rd century BC) has a series of four world-empires: Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece. Aemilius Sura (189-171 BC) and other Hellenistic writers listed the four empires as: Assyria, Media, Persia, Macedonia. The schema in the Sybilline Oracles has the four kingdoms also as Assyria, Media, Persia, Macedonia + followed by a fifth kingdom, Rome:
"First, the Assyrians will rule over all mortals, holding the world in their dominion for six generations...These will the Medes destroy, and boast on their thrones. They will have only two generations... A terrible din of battle will arise for the Medes and Persians in war. The Medes will fall under the spears of the Persians and flee over the great water of the Tigris. The power of the Persians will be the greatest of the whole world. They were destined to have one generation of very prosperous rule. All evils which men pray to have spared will come to pass, battles and murders, dissensions and exiles...But when the race of men comes to the tenth generation then there will also be yokes of slavery and terror for the Persians. But when the Macedonians boast of scepters, thereafter there will also be dire capture for Thebes... Macedonians will colonize Bactria, but the people of Bactria and Susa will all flee to the land of Greece...Upon the Rhodians too a final but greatest disaster will come. The power of Macedonia will not survive, but from the west a great Italian war will bloom under which the world will servce, bearing the yoke of slavery for the Italians" (Sybilline Oracle 4:49-101).
Other works that posit a succession of Assyrian, Median, and Persian kingdoms include Herodotus, Historia 1.95, 130, Diodorus Siculus 2.1-34, and Tobit 14:15 also claims that the Assyrian empire was succeeded by Cyaxares, king of Media. The latter allusion is to the coalition of Cyaxares and Nabopolassar (cf. Berossus) against Assyria and Cyaxares' role in the fall of Ninevah in 612 BC. The data from Tobit and the lists in the Jewish Sibylline Oracle 4 and the succession lists of Aemilius Sura and others suggests an intriguing hypothesis on the origin of Daniel's schema, as suggested in an earlier form by David Flusser. The view of history represented in these sources is a distinctively Persian perspective, which basically skips over the Babylonian kingdom by emphasizing the defeat of the Assyrians by the Medes, and then following the history of the Median kingdom (which ruled over the Persians until the reign of Astyages) until it fell in 555 BC to Cyrus, which then opened the era of the Persian empire. The author of Daniel inherited this Persian schema (including the memory of a time when the Medes ruled over the Persians) but applied it to a Jewish perspective of history, which focused on Babylon and its destruction of the Judahite kingdom, and posited its pseudenymous author as a captive of the king of Babylon. Instead of having the Median kingdom follow the Assyrian one, it now was made to follow the Babylonian kingdom. The late author of Daniel did not realize that the Median kingdom was roughly contemporaneous with the Babylonian one, and thus artificially placed it in between the fall of Babylon and the reign of Cyrus. This necessitated the invention of Darius the Mede as the conquerer of Babylon and the first king after its fall.
Day also notes: "There is no doubt among critical scholars that the four beasts represent in succession the Babylonian, Median, Persian, and Hellenistic empires, with the little horn symbolizing the Seleucid monarch Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who proscribed Judaism and persecuted those who remained faithfil to their religion...Apart from the inherent implausibility of one and the same person being called Darius the Mede and Cyrus the Persian, it is impossible to spirit away the Median empire from the book of Daniel by exegetical ingenuity, since it is required by the presence of the second beast in Dan. 7: the first beast clearly denotes Babylon, the fourth beast must represent the Hellenistic empires, since it is clear from elsewhere in the book (e.g. Dan. 11) that the denouement comes in Seleucid times; this leaves two more beasts, the latter of which must represent Persia (cf. Dan 10:1, 20; 11:2), so that the former beast must represent a further empire, that of the Medes, and specifically Darius the Mede, since no other Median ruler is cited Belshazzar and Cyrus" (pp. 151-152).

Daniel's Prophecy

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