Klaus you say "they have forgotten how to be the faithful and discreet slave." If we read their history carefully from Russell onwards we clearly see that they never have been a FDS but only impostors aggressively seeking to deceive people and build a financial empire out of it. That's why after all they are for ever trashing their own -stupid- theology and replacing it with a new one, it is flimsy or rather sleazy and certainly not of divine origin.
Will reading CoC automatically make me want to leave WTS?
by ljwtiamb 92 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Freedom
Dear Sheri, Thanks for your question. I found Ray's book confirmational to some of the things I had questioned for a long time, but I also see his book as a vendetta. The first edition was published in 1983 which is just a few years after he was disfellowshipped, and wrongly disfellowshipped, in my opinion. Alot of the material in the book (Society letters, etc.)are probably considered confidential, so what I am saying is that he either had inside help collecting pertinent information, or he planned on writing his expose when his problems first began (prior to his disfellowshipping) and immediately began collecting the information he needed. The book didn't shake my confidence in Jehovah, it just exposed more sins of Watchtower. Jah will deal with them for sure. Agape, freedom
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Ticker
I don't see the big deal, its a 12 dollor book. Take it as you want but its only a personal reflection of time spent within an organization and a insiders view of what actually happens. Without this book the mystery would still be very present as no documented factual information would be available. This book is an expose of the critical faults that happen when human authority attempts to interject into Christ's authority, and the problems that are a result of such. I think everyone can afford the book so thats not the excuse, and I don't see the big hype in reading it. The big hype is a creation of fear stemming from post cult indoctrination to mentally block critical information. You have to break the cycle or you will forever keep spinning in the hamster wheel. Basically as biker chick said "shit or get off the pot". You cant be lukewarm, but everyone owes it to themselves to at least view the facts and then make a decision.
Ticker
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bikerchic
LOL @ Ticker!
Basically as biker chick said "shit or get off the pot".
You say that like it's a bad thang........
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Ticker
Thanks biker chic
No it was a very good comment Biker chic. I liked it and I think its true. No beating around the bush. Who wants to be wish washy, and their no better way of putting it then you did.
Ticker
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bikerchic
No it was a very good comment Biker chic. I liked it and I think its true. No beating around the bush. Who wants to be wish washy, and their no better way of putting it then you did.
Life is too short for BS.....I'm a Nike´ type of person..........just do it!
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EvilForce
The scriptures say to examine all things in the light of God.
One of my fundamental problems with the Dub's was the insistence we could never critically think or read an "unapproved" text.
I just gave my copy of CofC to my brother. He hasn't been to a Jdub meeting in over 6 1/2 years, yet my brother in-law just told him this week he could not see my nieces until he resolves his sins with the elders. What sin? He had been living with his g/f for about a year 2 years ago. He hasn't been living with her or anyone else since, but somehow this became a problem just this week..... why? The new Organization book? I don't know. So my brother who simply quit going to meetings 6 1/2 years ago is supposed to go to the elders to have this "handled". Like the elders wouldn't just DF him and have the same end result. I HATE THE F***ING WTS!!!
But this is a horrible, wicked, cruel borg that needs to have it's tax exempt status pulled. That is my goal. I know I will probably not succeed and that is ok. It will not comsume me, but I have comitted to spending 10 hours a week working on my book, and petitioning various government groups to help me to our end. -
seven006
Ijwtiamb,
I have never read CoC. I don't need to. You said there is some good in the watchtower organization. That comment reminds me of what members of many cults have said about their comfort group. Iv seen documentaries about the members of the KKK, Aryan Nation, Heavens Gate, Jim Jones and numerous others who all said there is good in each one of their family orientated, and highly controlled groups. That is how cults and high control groups work. You see the kids all playing at a group picnic and I conjure up the many watchtower publications where they illustrate the same picture. You seem to be looking for the good, according to your personal illusion of good, just as those I mentioned perviously and in the same way as some have said we are looking for the bad for our own justification. What's the difference?
Do you think cults would gather any members if they painted a picture of beating the hell out of their kids and making their members drink poisoned Kool Aid in their new member brochures? Each one of the cults I mentioned before, think they have "a" truth that justifies their beliefs and qualifies their twisted thinking. Each one of them are filled with members who look at their organization the same way you look at yours and say "we are not a cult, we have the truth", and then point fingers at other "like" groups and can, (in their mind) say, the other group is a cult, but not us. I'm sure you have said the same thing when those other cults make the five o'clock news.
The tribal mentality of "we" and "everyone else" is what makes it's members feel special, loved, and secure no matter how many times their twisted thinking and outrageous actions are exposed. Their members are programed to respond in defense of their cult because they buy into the mentality that because others reject them and talk bad about them, they must be right because their cult leaders told them that people will talk bad about them and reject them. They create an illusion in their mind that their leaders have made some kind of truthful prophesy that proves to be correct because clear minded people do indeed talk bad about them and reject them. Because of "how" they were taught as well as "what" they were taught envelops their mind and keeps them from thinking clearly.
It is the same technique use by any control group and it is extremely effective in controlling the vulnerable mind. You take people who are desperately looking for something better, convince them you will offer something better, and any negative aspects of the "something better" is overlooked. That is why a pimp can take a scared and lonely girl off the cold dark streets, give her a warm place to sleep, new clothes, and the illusion of love and security and all she has to do is prostitute herself for him. If it gets her away from her sexually abusive father or whomever, she will see what the pimp is offering is "something better" no matter how bad it is. Something better or "some good" is all in ones perspective and is heavily balanced on what they also perceive as "something bad."
If you are looking for a smoking gun type of euphony from CoC that will convince you of anything, you will be using it the same way you are using the watchtower company and will probably learn nothing. It is constructive and open dialog using unrestricted open-minded thinking that will allow you to be honest with yourself and see the watchtower for what it really is. It is your "own" thinking and your ability to allow yourself open-minded, and self aware thinking that will convince you of anything, not one single book. Why do you think the watchtower warns about independent thinking so much? They do not want anyone to think for themselves, they want to do your thinking for you. That is extremely apparent by the fear you had just walking into a Christian bookstore.
Good luck,
Dave
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Ring Wielder
People quit smoking in a number of various ways....some go cold turkey....some wear patches...some do hynotherapy...some reduce the amount smoked..daily or weekly.
You cannot just state...Go cold turkey or otherwise you are not worth even bothering about. It worked for you...well maybe it did...but we are not all the same...we dont all have strengths in the same department. To suggest that people are weak willed and ought to get their act together and think for themselves i think shows a lack of understanding of humanity.
We are all different, having different experiences...backgrounds..genes...which mould our personalities and make us who we are.
So, like quitting smoking.... for some...CoC is unnecessary..for others, an affirmation and a reinforcing of what they already thought...for others a complete revelation...it may be just what they do NEED to help them make a decision. As someone said...it is just a book..there is no merit in not reading it as though we have some special strength which elevates us above the poor unfortunates who 'have' to read it to 'help' them. They may have strengths in areas where we are lacking...such as empathy and compassion...unless of course..we consider those qualities to be signs of weakness.....
Rant over....Steve
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prophecor
Without this book the mystery would still be very present as no documented factual information would be available. This book is an expose of the critical faults that happen when human authority attempts to interject into Christ's authority, and the problems that are a result of such.
Ticker, I feel as you do. The window into the outworkings of the society was such a mystery, a cloak of secrecy that I always associated them with being somewhere, housed in a secret room all day, making long prayers and coming out having had some kind of special connect with the Allmighty, they're just men, though, and I'm glad that I got a window into the secret life that they would never have afforded any of the regulars.