by googlemagoogle 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I would say "no"..................unless it's the JW religion.
Otherwise you don't have enough information, to judge another person's beliefs, and "what is your motive?" I try to keep my mouth shut about religion when I am around church goers. I don't want to offend.
I disrespect all religions equally.
amen!
i heard someone say recently that there is an overwhelming culture of politeness nowadays with regards to religion (esp in this country). i'm not sure exactly what he had in mind with this comment but i see it. i don't think "bashing" is appropriate or productive, but i think honesty without regard for what is necessarily 'PC' is refreshing.
In all honesty it isnt fair to bash a religion you know nothing about nor understand and tolerance of others irrespective as to their beliefs is to be encouraged however a great deal of us on this site have been hurt, abused and lied to by the WTS and share similar experiences.
Yep. If ya don't know what your talking about when your bashing a religion, don't open your mouth!
but where do you draw the line? there are things you wouldn't say about jews to not be viewed as antisemite
Here's the difference. Saying something like "I find Orthodox Judaism to be oppressive to it's members, for instance, making women obtain a "get" to be free to remarry is ridiculous, as well as it's archaic use of ancient health codes as dogma" That is critcism of Judaism.
Saying "The Jews are greedy conspiritors who control all the banks, run the world, and want to kill all gentiles. They killed our lord Jesus christ and have that curse on them to this day. They are Hooked nose communuist spreading vermin, descended from the planet Vulcan, here to destroy and Sully our pure lilly white Aryan race" Well, that would be anti semitic, and bashing. There's a big difference. (For more examples of anti-semitism see, Ianone, JJrizo)
Look, I give a crap what someone believes, as long as it does'nt hurt others. I criticized religion long enough as a JW, and the wiccan religion is no Sillier than Christianity. It's every bit as believable.
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh--Robert Heinlein
RELIGION:
A man runs over your dog because he hates dogs. Your dog doesn't die. You take your dog to the vet and the vet puts him to sleep.
Both men made an effort to kill your dog. The dog would end up dead either way. But, it matters to you the motivating force behind the death of your dog.
Stop and think about it.
You pay one man to kill your dog and you are grateful to him.
You despise the other man who was willing to do it for free.
It is certainly obvious to any thinking person that the context here is all important.
Often, the thought behind our deed is more important than the result of our doing it!
In a court of law we actually attempt to reveal the state of one's mind behind an event which leads to harm. The resulting discovery alters the legal penalty before a judge and jury. Malice is bad. Intention is everything.
Remember, however, the same harm has been done either way.
Religion has stated purposes and fixed beliefs. The people who harm themselves and others for religious reasons are acting out of purpose and not malice. But, the harm is real.
So too, persons criticising (bashing) religion often offend and hurt the feelings of religious people. The harm is there whether the intention to hurt lies behind it or not.
What is the sound course?
Each of us, to be moral, must be consistent with the truth of our values and act vigorously in speaking out for what is true and right and just. However, we must be willing to pay the price when this turns out to be in error, wrong-headed and downright fallacious.
To refrain from speaking out is a form of participation in evil. But, it is a sword with an edge that cuts both ways.
?Are we right? That is something we must test constantly. That is richly provided in this forum. Our ideas, opinions, prejudices and ethics are tested for soundness. We must own up or change to be moral.
Terry
When I see how my 14 year old nephew is committed to memorizing entire portions of the bible, an endeavor that he takes far more seriously than his school work;
When I see that he spends at least 7 hours a week at the church he attends;
When I hear him speak of the 'rapture' and the ensuing 7 year holocaust that will come upon those of us that are "Left Behind", with as much or more certainty than a JW has when speaking of the "New System";
When, after spending a weekend with his dad and stepmom, he suddenly has a change of heart about his having asked my sister the prior week to sign him up for soccer, and also proceeds to tell her that he is not interested in playing in band anymore, an activity that he clearly enjoys but quite obviously is being told by someone that perhaps he shouldn't participate in;
At this point, I say without hesitation:
Pentecostalism FUCKING SUCKS.
Dan, heart-being-slowly-broken class
As does any radical fundamentalist religion that takes peoples lives away through lies, and yes, I'll talk trash about those all damn day long!
Dan:
Pentecostalism covers a range of "Christian" denominations at the extreme end of the religion. Some aren't so bad, whereas some are raving loonies, IMHO. It sounds like your nephew has got it bad, and there's no zealot like a teenage zealot!
It might pay to confirm whether or not it's actually the church directing him, or his interpretation of what he's being taught. Also, what level of censure there is for members who participate in after school activities. There aren't many churches that are as bad as the JWs but some do, indeed, exist.
Also, was he raised a JW? And if so, is he exchanging one form of "controlled environment" for another? He may be a very unsettled wee lad, who is trying to find some stability in life. Not all teenagers go balls out for sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.
It may just be a phase, but I have to confess that your summary doesn't sound too encouraging. I'd be highly concerned, too.
Hi LT,
It might pay to confirm whether or not it's actually the church directing him, or his interpretation of what he's being taught. Also, what level of censure there is for members who participate in after school activities. There aren't many churches that are as bad as the JWs but some do, indeed, exist.
I think that much of the pressure comes from his stepmom, who is a dyed-in-the-wool Pentecostal nutcase. In spite of her ankle-length denim-skirts that she always wears, she is really the one who (as we Americans say) wears the pants in the family. Regarding the "censure" issue I think it works along JW lines, where the church is so high-involvement, and with that comes the social pressure of "you're signing up for what on Wednesday nights? But we have this or that church activity that night..." And of course like JW's they're elitist as hell i.e. why would you want to do activities with "worldly" people?
Oh yeah, and if you ask his Pentecostal stepmom about her waist-length hair and ankle-length skirts, of course she'll tell you that nobody *makes* her do these things. Sound familiar?
Also, was he raised a JW? And if so, is he exchanging one form of "controlled environment" for another? He may be a very unsettled wee lad, who is trying to find some stability in life. Not all teenagers go balls out for sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.
No, not raised JW, I was the only person in my family who ever converted to JW's. My sister is non-religious, as was her ex-husband until he met his current wife (and now he's a very typical "I was lost but now I'm saved" middle-aged true believer idiot). I would say that yes, he is an unsettled lad, very immature and impulsive even for his age, and not a critical thinker in any way shape or form. He is extremely competitive, which is probably a big part of what makes the religion so attractive to him, he's on the ultimate winning side now in his mind. That's the sort of thing that made JW's attractive to me, thinking back.
Ironically he told me last night that he hated studying history because "it's not like there's ever going to be a holocaust again." I was so tempted to say, except after the rapture right??
It may just be a phase, but I have to confess that your summary doesn't sound too encouraging. I'd be highly concerned, too.I am. Very. You've been in America a few times I know LT, but have you ever been in the "heartland"? When you get into the south and midwest, the more nutty-fundy are the religious people you encounter.
Since religion is all based upon the belief in an imaginary friend I would say it is open game. But I would defer to the board owner to state whether it is or is not. Hopefully we don't just pick on the JWs since all religions are nutty.
I think that we all have a right to religion.
We should respect eachothers rights.
So I don't agree with people bagging religions or bullying people from a certain religion. (which happens quite often as schools)
I don't think that religions should get descriminated against.
We all have our opinions but its best kept to ourselves. (but we all like to make a joke every now and then with our mates )
Really I think don't give others are hard time about their religion we should accept eachothers beliefs. and no converting business either, I hate it when jw's try to convert me when i am happily a catholic!
But then again they have a right to try and convert me as long as they understand the meaning of the word "No"
Gee living on his planet is like living in a religious war!
From Evanescence
