Questions and Answers

Marvin Shilmer

Should dissidence exist among dedicated Jehovah’s Witnesses? Answer:

*** w71 5/15 308 The Good News That Unites Mankind ***
So it is, in this twentieth century, that the unifying message of God’s Word is being brought to the people by word of mouth and printed page. While men may feel that without dissent nothing will improve, we can say with assurance that when the Creator of the universe, Jehovah God, speaks and people of all walks of life in all areas of the earth listen, then they can work in unity without dissent, without wrangling, without division.

Does dissidence exist among dedicated Jehovah’s Witnesses? Answer:

*** w54 8/15 510 Questions from Readers ***
Christians do not debate with dissenters in their own congregation, knowing it can deteriorate into degrading bickering and quarreling…
*** w64 5/15 305 Maintaining Unity in Difficult Times ***
It would be wrong, however, to try to put your own divergent opinion concerning a certain doctrinal matter across to as many in the congregation as possible.

Should dissenting voices among Jehovah’s Witnesses be crushed due to majority acceptance among the Watch Tower elite? Answer:

*** w98 3/15 28 Constantine the Great-A Champion of Christianity? ***
Seeking religious harmony for political reasons, Constantine quickly crushed any dissenting voices, not on the grounds of doctrinal truth, but on the basis of majority acceptance.

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses urged to openly test teachings of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society for agreement with the scriptures? Answer:

*** br78 3-4 Who Are They? ***
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that all religious teachings should be subjected to this test of agreement with the Scriptures, whether the teaching is offered by them or by someone else. They invite you—urge you—to do this in your discussions with them.

Comments anyone?

Maximus

Most pertinent is a recent Watchtower article that may also stimulate discussion of the question Marvin raises. Rational Witness started a thread about it sometime back.

In the August 1, 2001 Watchtower, the second study article is entitled "How to Make Your Advancement Manifest." And just how is that?

Quotation:
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First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding.

Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and “the faithful and discreet slave.” By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided “at the proper time”—through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions—we can be sure that we maintain “oneness” with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.—Matthew 24:45.

Second, the expression “the faith” refers, not to the conviction that each individual Christian professes, but to the totality of our belief, “the breadth and length and height and depth” of it. (Ephesians 3:18; 4:5; Colossians 1:23; 2:7) In fact, how can a Christian be in oneness with fellow believers if he only believes or accepts a certain part of “the faith”?
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Particularly galling to me is that almost every JW applies the term "apostate" to the slightest variation from the party line. The term was specifically made up to tar men like Ed Dunlap and Ray Franz, and to provide a ready handle, but is today applied to ANYONE who leaves, for whatever reason. All of us should stop buying into that notion.

Maximus

drahcir yarrum

Maximus:

This is an interesting excerpt from the WT article you posted: "A mature Christian. . . does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to bible understanding." Now I have seen numerous posts from defenders of the Society trying to deflect the notion that the Witnesses are a cult. One of the earmarks of a cult is "mind control".

I think it is quite one thing to advocate oneness of message, but it is quite another to advocate control of a person's opinions and ideas. The Medieval Catholic Church would have loved this excerpt. Big Brother in George Orwell's 1984 would have concurred.

Anchor

The dilemma I have faced for a very long time is simple but has painful ramifications to me personally.

Horn One: I go to the DC, hear it plainly stated that the top end of the hierarchy is made up of imperfect men. When "errors are made" and later pointed out--happens over and over--we are quick to say, "Well, just goes to show you, they are imperfect men. Jehovah has always used imperfect men, you know."

Horn Two: On pain of the ground swallowing up to kill me, I am expected to behave as though these men are infallible. There is no SEPARATE "faithful slave" that is perfect. It is these same imperfect men!

Now just who can I talk to? I may have some good persons in my congregation with whom I can let down my hair, but even that is hazardous. I have not seen for a very long time a circuit or district overseer with whom I would dare talk, although friends may pinpoint a particular person as being more "understanding." Who would you dare tell that you do not believe the Bible prohibits saving a pregnant mother's life when she is bleeding to death and TWO lives are at stake? Happened. Blood was secretly given.

This stifling attitude of squelching all personal thought is killing the organization and does nothing to form a mature Christian man or woman.

"The Medieval Church would have loved this." That's pretty good.

What next? Loyalty oaths? Another Inquisition? The Iron Maiden?

Any way you cut it, the JW attempting to be loyal is TORTURED.

Anchor

anon

I concur with Anchor's opinion. It seems to me there is difficulty in distinguishing between matters of conscience, which should be left up to the individual, and the doctrines that should not be open to debate. Would a religion that could not be united as to whether or not the Bible was inspired have any value?
On the other hand is someone really disloyal if they question scriptural foundation of all facets of blood policy? Was it wrong not to be swept along with 1975 hysteria?
How can someone acknowledge this and remain a JW? John 6:68
I have mentioned this before and say thanks to some who have sincerely responded to this. However, in my opinion no viable alternative has been offered.

jschwehm

Hi-

Someone asked "what is next loyalty oaths"?

If I am not mistaken, this was considered by the organization during the early 80's after the Franz incident. Is that true?

Jeff S.

Maximus

Marvin, next time try a catchy title that will be picked up on Search and titillate at the same time but with a double entendre. Suggestions given me were

XXXX Babes to Badness
--moral stuff

Boobs, Boobs and More
--how dumb can you get, etc.

Other suggestions were really X-rated.

Max

voltaire

Maximus,

It's interesting that in the article you cite, the society says that "the faith" does not refer to personal conviction, but rather to the "totality of belief". Most persons would probably assume faith is a personal thing, generated from within and based at least to a certain degree on one's personal understanding and conscience. It seems that the society has made faith out to be what it personally believes. Faith is no longer a personal conviction, but rather a set of ideas that originate with others. I doubt most non-JWs would suspect that faith could possibly mean such a thing. What a chasm exists between the thinking of the householder and the witness at the door. Actually, I doubt that most witnesses would define faith as anything other than personal. They have, however, been masterfully trained(manipulated?) to act as though faith is what is formulated for them by the GB, all the while believing consciously that it is a personal matter. I think few recognize that they no longer take much personal responsibility for themselves.

Anchor

Really thoughtful post, voltaire.

Gives you new insight into the days when the Aid to Bible Understanding book was being developed and WHY the need was seen to mould real Christians, by nourishing them.

Rules are for children, principles are for adults.

We are being treated like children. When truth is not one's own, but merely a reflection of another's conclusions, watch out. Not a very stable springboard for the organization.

Can't wait to get the marvelous new tool that is sure to be a dumbed-down TM School--several years down the road.

Anchor

Eusebius Hieronymus

Faith is not synonymous with credulity.

Nowhere in the Bible do I read that I must place my trust in anyone other than God or his Christ. How can I put trust in a group of individuals who have a miserable track record with regard to issues like 1975, alternative service, the "generation," and so on? Who constantly change their mind about policy. Hebrews 13:8 says "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

In answer to the question, I see only encouragement to learn facts about current doctrine, not to read the Bible outside the framework of what is already written in the publications. That exclusivity is extremely dissatisfying in an age in which we are challenged by a flood of information in every field of human endeavor.

We have frankly beaten the phrase to death: faithful and discreet slave. Even a cursory examination of the parable or illustration does not yield what the Watch Tower Society says it does.

Simply put, Pastor Russell was quite pleased when someone applied to him the term "faithful and wise servant." He eschewed it initially, but clearly liked it. Rutherford was not the saintly, kindly disposed Russell and the metaphor did not fit him too well. A class was the answer; anointed class, Jonadab class, Jehu class--faithful and discreet slave class.

I do not feel John 6:68 "to whom can we go?" applies to that class. It's not "where to go," it's "to whom to go." That scripture applies to Jesus Christ.

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