It's all about women; the Roman Catholic Church in the 21st C.

by Abaddon 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  Abaddon

  Oh, there's the pendulum effect, but it is a little on the local scale. No equivalent swing to more traditional yet experiential versions of Christianity in Europe. Much of the devloped world yet to hit their religio-socio equivalent of 'our' '60's

  What a franchise; 2,000 years and still going!

  So maybe there will be a religious government in the USA one day... rather than evolving to survive in a new environment, changing the (political) environment so as to be able to control the social environment and ensure its survival without change.

  Ick.
• 

  heathen

  I think things are bad enough in the US with the moral majority whining and moaning all the time and setting republicans is some kind of holy light . We in america do not need government to define morals . These people rant and rave over unauthorized statues with the 10 commandments written on it taken out of a federal building . We do have sepperation of church and state but the "conservatives" refuse to acknowledge it . There is no need for shrines in any government buildings . We are not under mosaic law in this country we are under majority rule with a representative democratic republic .
• 

  Dan-O

  "We do have sepperation of church and state but the "conservatives" refuse to acknowledge it ."
  
  It comes down to a question of interpretation: does the constitution prohibit any mention of religion and religious principles by the state? Or does it prohibit the establishment of a state sponsored religion to the detriment of other faiths?
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  Abaddon

  I think it is simper than that Dan;

  How can one religous traditon be granted special rights and priveliges with regard to access to governmental facilites for the display of advertising (Jesus statues or models of the ten commandments are just as much advertising as a SNickers poster) or other dissemination of their beliefs?

  To do so without giving other religions equal access and rights is to those religons detriment. It undermines the very concept of equality and fairness.

  So, either have Shiva, Buhhda, little Mecca-facing prayers rooms, or jewelled containers for holy scrolls or books, all lined-up along side Jesus in the lobby of the legislature ... or have nothing.
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  Dan-O

  I'm OK with that concept, Ab. You should come to America & apply for citizenship. And once you've become a U.S. citizen, you can have a voice in these issues.
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  heathen

  If I remember correctly the constitution states that congress shall not pass any legislation reguarding a national religion . Abaddon is correct all religions are equal and people are free to worship in anyway they choose . Technically you can't even force a political candidate to take a religious oath to obtain office . They seem to like the swearing in on the bible crap .
• 

  Abaddon

  Dan-O I don't get that as an argument (the come and live here bit).

  "You don't live here so can't make any comments about the way my country is run".

  Rather than dealing with the contents of my comment you query my right to make it.

  I was hoping you could explain why Christianity is granted a special place in the Constitution or Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independance, as my reading of them completely fails to find anywhere where it says that, but then that's probably another question I can't ask.

  I also thought that making adverse comments about countries one does not live in, if one feels that country is not promoting 'freedom', was now official American foreign policy, so am surprised that the same action in reverse is not received well.

  (remember, you're a nice guy but that doesn't mean I have to like your opinion as well, or agree with why you hold it)

  heathen

  Yup, swearing in on the Bible is amusingly anachronistic. They could try sacrificing a goat and sprinkling it's blood on the new President before reading its entrails, far more modern and progressive. Oh-o, here come gay people to take over the world (and make us look like slopy dressing guys who can't dance and have no taste in interior furnishing -- gay peril!!!). Where's a demonised Smurf when you need one?
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  Dan-O

  "Rather than dealing with the contents of my comment you query my right to make it."
  
  Naw, I was giving you some crap. *LOL* Really, you seem as though you're able to reason & discuss things, and you have shown your interest & curiosity in american politics. You're the sort of immigrant this country needs.
  
  "I was hoping you could explain why Christianity is granted a special place in the Constitution"
  
  The simple answer is that the Constitution does not give Christianity any special rights. But neither does it prohibit the recognition of the values and principles common among our country's founders, so long as the expression of those values does not infringe upon the freedoms of other citizens.
• 

  Abaddon

  Yeah, well I kinda gathered that but thought keeping a straight face would be funnier as a response; besides, your not normally one to blow someone off with an evasive answeroid (something that perfoprms the function of an answer but isn't).

  As regards "the recognition of the values and principles common among our country's founders", bugger that. They're all dead. And most Americans nowadays are not interested in holding slaves and sticking one on Mad King George.

  I understand why some people would want Jesus in the courthouse. But that doesn't mean them getting their way wouldn't disadvantage other beliefs or that all of those who want Jesus in the courthouse would also give Buhhda room too.

  To suggest that one belief system is any more associated with justice than another in the modern age where people increasingly accept that the concept of human rights and freedoms over-rides any religious doctrine or practice is, for me counter-productive.

  And those campaigning for such advantage to be given Christians often are active in having their personal interpretation of Christian belief codified as law. Whilst they have a right to campaign like that, sectarian legislation is very unwise.