If God doesn't want brothers to have beards, why does it grow? (page 6)

EvilForce

LT

I think the Witnesses become very Puritanical in their approach. It is my opinion that most Dubs feel like they are sacrificing for God currently. It's not an easy thing to worship God. Therefore the little things which become "a labor of love" seem accurate. Many pioneers had this attitude...."Oh my gosh look at what I'm giving up to serve God". Or, "If I was worldy, I'd be out drinking every night trying to sleep with someone new all the time, if it wasn't for Jehovah". Comments like these left me stunned most of the time. That because they sacrificing so much to Jehovah they better be rewarded in the future. Like the Puritans of early American history music was bad, playing cards was bad, booze was bad. The amount of control given up equals the amount of spirituality you had. I think it's like an S&M fetish...the pain of serving God brings some mental reward somehow.

Am I making any sense?

Qcmbr

LT - at the end of the day God never said He'd check the cut of your cloth - or the length of your hair!

For me its part of my worship to dress up in smart clothes on the sabbath (my employer requires it during the week - Sunday I choose to because it is a special day for me) because its a day when I try to be different (I think reverence is a key to spirituality.) If the queen came over I'd likewise dress up to recognise her - I'd feel a bit ropey if I made more effort for her than for Him...

In the LDS church their is a uniform of sorts for Missionaries, Bishops, Presidents, Apostles etc.. the dress code is whatever is smartest in that culture (so reed skirts in Samoa lads!) also if you've read any other posts about the mormon temple there is a total dress code there - white clothing only inside the temple.
Baptism is recommended to be totally white.
Deacons passing the sacrament are recommended to wear white shirts and ties.

At the end of the day anyone whose crazy enough to become LDS has already given up their tea, coffee, fornication, booze, drugs, 10% income, Sundays. Facial hair and 'I Love The Devil' T-shirts at church are a fairly small sacrifice in comparison :)

LittleToe

EF:
It was my experience as a JW that those kind of reasonings were never voiced, even if they were secretly considered (oh the joy of "works-based" religion).

I'm entranced by the similaritires found in the "Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" (commonly know as "Mormons") movement that Q is a member of. I guess I'm trying to find out if the motivations are the same.

Terry seems to suggest that it's about control (which is a common motivation in a wide variety of religions), but this would appear extreme even by that token.

Occam's Razor would suggest that he's correct, but it surely can't be that simple, can it?

LittleToe

Q:
I do understand what you're saying and I agree that by comparison it's a small sacrifice to pay (though I wonder what it buys), however why is it required at all?

I also know the concept of "Sunday Best" and uniforms for office-bearers, be it Ministers, Priests or Bishops, in other denominations. But I'm curious as to why this should be extended to the "rank and file".

Qcmbr

Ahh maybe that might be an answer ! There are no ultimate rank and file in the LDS church - the Bishop may well be released and be the librarian while the librarian might become Bishop. I'm currently the Elder's Quorum President but my last calling was Ward Mission Leader, before that I was second counsellor in something etc.. (I've also been the stand by librarian - only the hymn book monitor is lower hehehe).

In all seriousness there isn't such a pronounced hierarchy as first observation might suggest - for example I can baptise, bless, administer the sacrament (bread and water), preach from the stand, run Sunday worship meetings, collect hymnbooks, bless a grave, baptise for the dead. Things I can't do - perform a marriage (need to be a Registrar in UK), seances, summon the dead or walk on water (only the Women's leaders can do that.)

JH

I remember a brother telling me that in the new system we would be allowed to grow beards....

LittleToe

Q:
I still feel you're being as wriggly as a JW on a doorstep (and I should recognise it well, as I did it myself for decades). You appear to do a fast line in "evasion".

On an entirely different topic, which may be suitable for another thread unless you have a fast answer - you mention bread and water for sacraments. Have you got an explanation for why wine isn't used (or at least non-alcoholic grapejuice)?

EvilForce

While good ole Occum may be right...

I'm not sure it's an outright mind control technique. Remember when the Jewish leaders were trying to determine what was considered work on the Sabbath. So they had concluded that if you were sick, blowing your nose on the sabbath was to be considered work. So what you needed to do was to "pin" a hankerchief of some sort to the sleeve of your coat / shirt the night before the sabbath. So if you just simply wiped your nose with the cloth...this was not a Sabbath day violation.

The religion had become a "work based faith religion". And I think you are dead on accurate with that reasoning. The Dub's proclaim that faith without works is dead.

Also, when BOE's come up with "local suggestions" of how people are supposed to act, they always use the scripture...he who is faithful in the least is faithful in much. So if you are doing all the "little" things you must be doing the "big" things well. You cannot measure faith or good heartness per se, but it is easy to see if you are being faithful in the little crap like short hair, ties no matter what, skirts passed the knee etc...

The more you give up or give control of over to the church/God the better you must be since that's not what worldly people do. But in truth these prohibitions are probably based on man. As someone mentioned the beard / Russell issue that Rutherford hated. 10 to 1 odds that is why it is still uncouth these days.

Q,

A cute story I heard about Mormonism.....(now I admit this may be an urban myth)

Once upon a time Joseph Smith used to have coffee klatches at his house after Sunday service....well Mrs. Smith had just bought new white / off white couch and chair set for the living room. Someone then proceeded to spill coffee on her new white furniture. Mrs. Smith then told Mr. Smith,,,,No more coffee for the after service get togethers since they stain my furniture. This is what started the no coffee, no caffiene prohibition.

Now a good friend of mine a former LDS member that has written a couple of books and quite the LDS historian has dismissed this story, but I thought it was fun, nonetheless.

EvilForce

Q,

Do you wear your mormon brand underwear to temple? Do you wear them all the time?

LittleToe

EF:

Do you wear your mormon brand underwear to temple? Do you wear them all the time?

If I'm not much mistaken he's not allowed to answer that, having taken vows to the effect.
I'll stand corrected on that point, though.

As for the historic precedent, thing, I suspect you're quite correct. The WTS has acquired it's own body of tradition, for all it decries "Christendom" for the same.

If God doesn't want brothers to have beards, why does it grow?

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