by cruzanheart 19 Replies latest watchtower scandals
This topic has been covered many times, in many different ways, but let's open this for discussion: IF the Witnesses allowed an elder per congregation to be trained as a "pastoral counselor" as other religions do, would that make it more bearable to be a Witness and play by their rules? Would it lessen the number of depressed, suicidal people who feel they have no reason to live?
*discuss*
Nina
yes i think it would but i dont think it will nappen cos there would have to be some kinda 'worldly' training and the solutions offered would then be different to pray more, do more fs, study more
It may help as long as people are not frowned on for seeking counseling or medications and the elders learn not to be judgemental.
I agree with tijkmo, with actual training things would be better, but said training would conflict with their theology and would therefore be incompatable.
As I mentioned in other threads, last year we did home hospice for my dad when he was end stage with a brain tumor. I would sit and listen when the brothers would come by to visit, and when the chaplain (still can't believe my mom was willing to sit and talk with him) would come by. The level of benefit was just night and day, the chaplain was so much better and offered so much more support it wasn't even funny. The evidence of a trained counselor vs. untrained was striking. You don't send a carpet cleaner to try and talk someone down from a bridge when they are ready to jump.
And, after dad died, the chaplain kept coming by, the brothers did not.
Cruzan:
I think they would have to make radical changes to the JW religion which they will not do. Unfortunately, the whole JW thing is designed to induce guilt and other bad emotions in a person. And then to top it all off you have untrained men to give advice to persons who may be severely mentally ill. This can cause more harm than good as we all have seen.
LHG
I was thinking the other day that, as farkel once described in excruciating detail, the WTS is much more like a publishing company than a religion.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/74641/1.ashx
Think about it. All compassionate care revolves around the distribution of literature. Young mothers cannot take time out for their family, they must continue with the all-important literature distribution. Older ones must needs not fell left out, they can contribute fifteen minutes a month leaving the Watchtower in their doctor's waiting room.
So I am not sure how effective a trained elder would be. He would have to tell a poor depressed person that the only way they will feel better is if they get back in to field service.
I think as a counselor of any kind you would have to be able to determine if somebody is suffering from things other than deeeeeemonzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . Alot of people need professional help and sometimes the psycholgists are the only ones that can prescribe medication for various bi polar disorders. I think the church should be prepared to deal with professionals when these things come up .
Giving 'elders' training!!!!!???????
Isnt there a risk that this will boost the ego of the janitor elder concerned? I mean not only is the Janitor an Ordained Minister but hes a counsellor too??? Wow...he'l be saying hes a Doctor next.
No the only thing that would stop the amount of mental illness within the congregations is to disband the congregation, disband the WTS, disband the GB, and get professional help for those who are ill; counsellors are only part of the healing process in whatever situation they find themselves in, they would do much better by seeking help from those completely dispassionate to their beliefs and background as opposed to allowing self serving hypocrites manipulate them further.
Apologies to the minority of well meaning elders out there!
I don't think it would help at all. There were many times where Elders or COs noticed that I did not look very happy and asked me what was wrong. I ALWAYS told them that everything was ok because I knew that they would act against me because I did not agree what was being taught. Elders are told to try to "readjust" a person and if that does not work the person is to be DFed.
I don't care if the "counselor" was sworn not to reveal anything discussed with anyone else... right now elders tell each other everything that is going on in JCs even though they are not supposed to.
Elders have the power and authority of Judge, Jury and Executioner. Adding "counselor" into that bunch would give them even more power, only this time they will have power over a person's inner most thoughts and feelings.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If anything, elders should have a "separation of powers" amongst themselves. There should be those who are "judge", and then let the congregation as a whole act as "jury" after hearing all of the facts regarding a matter. Isn't this how the bible describes judicial matters in the congregation to begin with?
This is why most JWs do not know just how Fcked up they organization is... they NEVER hear about all of the crap that goes on behind closed doors even though the bible says that they should know about it.
Once a friend and I visited a church for a Sunday morning service and part way through the service the pastor invited us all to stand and shake hands, say a greeting and introduce ourselves to the people sitting around us. He stopped the service and we all started shaking hands and greeting each other. This must have went on for 5 minutes.
My VERY first thought was . . . you could NEVER do this in the Kingdom Halls I attended. Not everybody at a Kingdom Hall is approved for a handshake and a greeting. Some are disfellowshipped and shunned by all, others are marked and fractionally shunned. Half of those not disfellowshipped and shunned are pissed off at the other half.
The Witness people can't take that step into kindness and helpfulness because they are hate based and mean natured as a group. A pastor would be nice but all Jehovah's Witnesses in positions of responsibility are only responsible for the best interests of the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation, it's agenda, it's legal standing, it's possessions, and it's image.
