A relationship with God or the organization ?

by vitty 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  vitty

  I have been thinking about this for a while, so here goes. When I was in the "truth" I truly believed in God, I prayed and tried to do what was right ( WT style) Then when I started reading stuff and the experiences on here it didnt take very long before I knew the "truth" wasnt true after all.

  So after 20 years as an adult that I spent in, it litrually took a few hours to come out.

  Ive asked myself how and why did this happen? And so quickly.

  At first I felt I still believed in Jehovah, but if the WT was wrong, where did that leave me. I now realize I never really did have a relationship with him. And thats the key, for all the words the WT spouts about you cultivating a relationship with him, thats were the danger lies, the WT really doesnt want you to.

  I had a relationship with the organization not God. This makes me feel stupid and angry.

  There are many here who spent many years as an adult in the org, I want to ask did you. Did you have a relationship with him and has it changed, do you feel hes a different God now or the same.

  When you look back, was it the org that was important and God took a back seat? And if you dont believe in a God anymore, how can you stop believing in something that you had a relationship with for maybe many years?

  I hope Im making sense, its really hard putting thoughts down in writing. I think what I want to know is If you where genuine, I mean not being forced as a youngster, but doing it by your own free will, happy knowing you were pleasing Jehovah where does that leave you now?
• 

  Lehaa

  You make total sense to me.

  I've always had a relationship with God.

  I feel it's closer now that it ever was.

  I don't have some dumb organisation telling me exactly how it sould be.

  I still do have a few problems with him now, but don't feel guilty questioning him or feeling angry at him.
• 

  alw

  vitty, i understand you perfectly.

  like you i entered the truth,(lie) as an adult, and was in for 22 years, and yes once one starts to see another angle to it all it doesnt take long to exit, if only in your mind.

  i was never what you would call religous before the jws, but i did pray to god often and i felt i had a close relationship with him.especially in times of unrest i would make special efforts to pray to him and i always felt better.

  when i joined the jws i thought my relationship would grow even more, however the longer i was in the more distant i felt to god. maybe it is that :were never good enough" attitude we were were bashed with all the time.

  i remember giving prayers at meets, studies,even at home with my family and feeling very inadequate, and almost robotic, the closeness i once had had gone.

  also like you i feel my faith in a god of any desciption is lacking now due to the anger, and hurt felt by being duped by the org. some here still have a strong faith in god, and thats good for them but for me im not sure anymore,im still dealing with a lot of issues.i feel like im in "no mans land"

  good post vitty, thanks for sharing. mr.alw
• 

  LittleToe

  I think we probably all felt variations of what you state, so we can empathise.

  I always felt I had a relationship with "Jehovah", from being very young, though analysing this I realise that I was first and foremost living a role that I'd been raised with

  It wasn't until my adult life that a relationship with God surfaced, though it was still using the name "Jehovah" and Jesus wasn't really in the picture much at all. The relationship was still predominantly with the organisation

  My turning point came when a relationship with Jesus surfaced from out of the blue in the form of a "spiritual experience" in my own home. Jesus suddenly took first place, the "Father" suddenly shot up 1000x higher than before, and the organisation became just a means to an end (the only form of "worship" that I knew)

  My doctrines became unravelled rapidly, merely through reading the bible, and they continue to evolve as I read wider and wider and sift through the information experientially. Understandably the WTS became very dissatisfying, and I left after about six months from the initial "experience"

  I continue on the "Christian" path, and find that framework edifying, especially in the light of the history of experience that I've had right up to date. It isn't borne of ignorance, however, as I continue to explore and experiment

  I thought I'd add a few emoticons to keep this lively, so I'll finish with one for Gumby, whom I've been neglecting lately
• 

  donkey

  And if you dont believe in a God anymore, how can you stop believing in something that you had a relationship with for maybe many years?

  Another way of looking at it: Since believers can't prove God exists, how can they have a relationship with him? It would seem to be more of a fantasy that you keep living in your own head and the more you live it the more real it becomes, but the truth is that doesn't make it real. Religious belief is akin to schizophrenia - one communicates with the voices.... in fact its interesting that if one did hear schizophenic voices it would almost be understandable that one try and communicate in return, yet its even more flabbergasting when one cannot hear the voices yet one still tries to communicate...kinda like wishing the voices were there.

  Donkey
• 

  JAVA

  Good topic. I think most ex-JWs fully understand the feeling of serving the Watchtower over following God. Being a Jehovah Witness is all about serving and following the Tower. The Society makes the rules, controls the lives and thinking of members. Our relationship was with the Society, and we couldn't imagine God without the Tower. Our behavior was directed by whatever was printed in the next Watchtower.
  
  Snapping out of the Tower causes one to wonder about everything, because the Tower was everything to us before. Now knowing "the Truth" was a lie places everything else in question. God, the Bible, and religion is no longer a given. That's normal, but also feels like we're standing on new ground.
  
  Driving the bus instead of being a passenger requires skills that followers of the Watchtower have not been allowed to use. Questioning everything for the first time is a good thing. It gives us a fresh start.
• 

  upside/down

  I did....

  But apparently it was all one sided. And it turns out "God" isn't interested in me the way He made me with intellect and a heart and and inquiring mind as I came "out of the box". Apparently I'm a very defective "model" and apparently it's my fault.....?

  I found out I'm defective and that He only wants mindless drones that do whatever any scoundrel comes up with as long as it's labeled "the truth". I also discovered that ALL communication is one-way. Unless the aforementioned scoundrel is first consulted my "God" Himself who then in turn tells me what "God" wants. I also found that even if I'm punished for something I didn't do (repeatedly) and don't just take it, that I'm rebellious and and if I question it (with His "God" given intellect) I'm an "independent thinker" and therefore a rebel equal to Satan himself.

  I also discovered what a double-standard is... you see if I treated my wife or kids the way "God" treats me I'd be labeled the PRICK of the ages, by all.

  I am forced to believe what can't be proven (faith?) and even though I'm told He made everything including all the physical processes of the universe... I'm to ignore all evidence and avoid all things "physical" and pursue the "spiritual", even though I exist on a physical plane. While pursuing the "spiritual" I met the most cantankerous group of his so-called people and they proceeded to abuse me and my family and I once again wasn't "spiritual" enough (my fault?) and was guilted and coerced into submission to things I didn't understand (honestly) and couldn't comprehend. I was told it was all for my own good.

  The problem is, I was being abused and didn't even realize it. I was burying my conscience and not aware.

  Well I woke up... finally!

  NEVER AGAIN!

  u/d (of the double-standards suck class)
• 

  sweet tee

  I felt I had a relationship with something - call it God, higher consciousness, whatever. All I know is that it's something I have felt all my life. What the dubs did was put stipulations on that relationship. If you don't do THIS and avoid THAT then God will not be there for you. In fact, if you leave US you leave HIM! . It changed my personal relationship from one of comfort to one of 'fear and trembling'. I remember hearing over and over again, "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God".

  Wondering all the time if I was bloodguilty or had blasphemed unintentionally was draining and made it difficult to feel close to God. I bought into the 'if you leave US you leave HIM for maybe a month or so after Ieft the Borg. But with five kids in tow and a dub husband acting a complete fool, I called on the God I knew before they told me his name was Jehovah and I truly believe he helped me through it.

  I agree that after reading about contradictions in the Bible and different theories about whether God even exists at all one can become confused, but my faith in MY GOD remains in tact. I do lean a little toward the agnostic point of view, in that I am not positive that anyone has all the answers about this God and our future - and I do wonder why there appears to be no intervention in mans affairs on earth. But I just accept the fact that it's not for me to know at this time. But I do feel that I will find out - one day.
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  Terry

  I think the organization plugs into an atavistic need for tribe and family.

  The Governing Body takes full and complete advantage of our genetic predisposition for pecking order (with themselves at the very top).

  Once you give up your own autonomy your mental defenses are gone!

  A rational mind is our ONLY defense against becoming somebody's lap dog. And what does the organization require of you? They emphasize not trusting in your OWN understanding! Further, they undermine your status as a person.

  1.You are born sinful and deserving of death

  2.You are a drop in the ocean and dust on the scales.

  3.You are wicked, imperfect and unable to guide your own steps.

  4.You are headed for complete destruction

  5. You cannot trust in your own mind, your fellow man and you must "hate" your family and cling to god's organization.

  6.You must become totally dedicated to the dictates of the organization.

  7.You must not question any information you are given through the Watchtower or the Kingdom Hall.

  8.The Bible was not even written for you! You are just a secondary class of person saved by the real apple of God's eye; the anointed.

  9.There is no way you can read and understand God's word by yourself.

  10.Your function is merely to serve as a slave and praise God's "glorious ones".

  Is it any wonder JW's are always so depressed and unreasonable when their self-esteem has been slaughtered by such feckless mind-control?

  What JW's have more than anything else is the STOCKHOLM SYNDROME.

  Stockholm syndrome

  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

  The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological state in which the victims of a kidnapping, or persons detained against their free will ? prisoners ? develop a relationship with their captor(s). This solidarity can sometimes become a real complicity, with prisoners actually helping the captors to achieve their goals or to escape police.

  There!

  That is the nature of the relationship with Jehovah's organization.

  Terry
• 

  LongHairGal

  UpsideDown and Terry:
  
  You said it all and remember it better than I could!
  
  Maybe in the beginning they were sincere but at some point (I don't know when)they developed into the typical religion. It is just the same tired old story of an elite few wanting followers!
  
  What an evil of mankind! Wanting to be worshiped and putting themselves over other people! Will this ever end?