by frankiespeakin 77 Replies latest jw friends
Rod,
I don't expect you to read all of it I just thought i would post it to show science doesn't contradict what mystic are saying and so I posted some sites on the subject,,also clicking on the colored letters has some very interesting info. the one one D.Bohm clicking on these two for some interesting info on light and cosciousness:
theorists of the emerging paradigm through 2, Bohm lectured worldwide on the meaning of physics and consciousness.
frankiespeakin,
I have a lot of material on Dr. Rupert Sheldrake- biologist.
On the internet, look up the topic:
Morphogenic Fields
There are many sites that deal with that subject, including the one I was quoting the articles from (i.e. "The Hundredth Monkey" and "DNA is influenced by Words and Frequencies")
This will lead you to all kinds of interesting articles and experiments.
Rod P.
SUNNYGAL says: It has been well documented that loss of one of your senses causes the other remaining ones to become even more acute. Blind people report their hearing and sense of smell IMPROVES. This does not LIMIT them. They learn to live with the loss and STILL excel at life. Ever watch Animal Planet? What about the dogs and cats that lose two legs? They are not limited by this at all, they still carry on their doggie and kitty lives, adapting for their loss. The only limits, I think, are those you impose YOURSELF. What if Lance Armstrong, after finding he had cancer had allowed himself to feel like he was through?
Sorry, URBAN MYTH
http://www.cnib.ca/divisions/nfllrd/myths/#Blind%20people%20have%20special%20gifts.
Myth: Blind people have special gifts.
Fact: Some people think that visually impaired people are endowed with a better sense of touch, hearing, taste or smell to compensate for their loss of vision. In fact, many blind and partially sighted people have a poorer sense of hearing or touch than sighted people, especially if they are older people. This said, many blind people have learned to listen more carefully or to make more use of their remaining senses.
ROD P SAYS: I am saying there IS enough evidence of paranormal phenomena (i.e. operating beyond known physical laws) that science cannot readily dismiss or explain away
I think this should be pretty strong evidence.
Terry
Here's an interesting Theory:
http://twm.co.nz/Harm_wldview.html
A step toward resolving this long-standing impasse may be the recognition that it is, in a sense, a historical accident that physics was taken to be the root science. That led naturally enough to such ideas as seeking objectivity through separating observer and observed; taking reality to be essentially that which can be physically measured; and seeking explanations of the whole in terms of understanding the parts.
But what if the study of living systems had been taken to be the root science, rather than physics? Had this been the case, science would undoubtedly have taken a more holistic turn. It would have recognized that wholes are self-evidently more than the sum of their parts, and would have adopted an epistemology more congenial to living organisms. It might well have adopted a different ontological stance in viewing reality.
Such an alternative ontological stance is proposed by American philosopher Ken Wilber (1996; based on earlier work by Arthur Koestler), that of considering reality as composed of "holons," each of which is a whole and simultaneously a part of some other whole-"holons within holons." (For example, atom-molecule-organelle-cell-tissue-organ-organism-society-biosphere.) Holons at the same time display agency, the capacity to maintain their own wholeness, even as they are also parts of other wholes. A holon can break up into other holons. But every holon also has the tendency to come together with others in the emergence of creative and novel holons. Evolution is a profoundly self-transcending process: It has an utterly amazing capacity to go beyond what went before. The drive to self-transcendence is built into the very fabric of the universe. The self-transcending drive produces life out of matter, and consciousness out of life.
Holons relate "holarchically." (This term seems advisable because "hierarchy" has a bad name, mainly because people confuse natural hierarchy [inescapable] with dominator hierarchy [pathological].) Thus cell-holons are parts of organ-holons, which in turn are parts of organism-holons, which are parts of community-holons. For any particular holon, functions and purposes come from the next level up in the holarchy; capabilities depend upon the next level down. Within such a representation of the global system, let us now explore how goals are achieved and problems get resolved.
In the holarchic picture of reality, the scientist-holon seeking to understand consciousness is in an intermediate position. Looking downward in the holarchy (or to the same level, in the social sciences), and exploring in a scientific spirit of inquiry, it is immediately obvious that the appropriate epistemology is a participative one. That is, it recognizes that understanding comes, not alone from being detached, objective, analytical, coldly clinical, but also from cooperating with or identifying with the observed, and experiencing it subjectively.This implies a real partnership between the researcher and the phenomenon, individual or culture being researched; an attitude of "exploring together" and sharing understandings.
I think he was just trying to work out the nature of "reality" using the wisdom of his time and place.
it's humbug. but like him we to play the game.
everyone knows the world came into being with me and will end with me.
Terry,
I went to your skeptics site and took a look. I have a real problem with the Amazing Randy for starters.
I will openly acknowledge that there are those professed gifted psychics of the paranormal who are manipulators and deceivers- the Charlatans. It's all about money. This I despise. At the same time, guys like Randy simply demonstrate that by using the techniques and skills of their craft (i.e. the Magician), they can replicate the phenomena. They use techniques like sleight-of-hand, patter (verbal monalogue), diversion and cover-up, to name a few. The bending spoon technique, for instance, involves manipulating the spoon and fingers inside the palm to create the illusion of "bending" a spoon. I have watched this technique done in slow motion, showing exactly how it is done. Now just because Randy can perform this stunt, does not, in my books, disprove the phenomenon of metallic objects having their molecular structure being realigned, thereby permitting such an event from actually happening. There are many incidences of this occurring around the world by common people, without motivation of financial gain. I will spend some time on this topic to gather up some of these cases for you, and post them here (or maybe on another thread).
There are all kinds of real cases of precognition, mental telepathy and poltergeist incidences that, at the very least, demonstrate that something else is going on than what can be explained by conventional science. I would be happy to provide you with a number of those cases as well. I am just trying to tell you to keep an open mind on some of these things. Otherwise, I will tell you that "Your prejudice is showing." There are just too many scientists who all too readily dismiss things without examining them properly first, and in such cases, they are just as guilty of "The Religion of Skepticism" and are those believers who all too readily accept things on the basis of "The Religion of Faith". I am saying to the world, that we need some balance between these two extremes. (i.e. Keep an open mind. We might learn something!)
IMHO, one of the greatest barriers we erect in our pursuit of "Truth" is "Believing is seeing." (i.e. preconceived notions or prejudice, either for or against). We believe a certain point of view (like belonging to a Religion with a fixed position), and so everything we study and examine will almost inevitably ends up supporting our predisposed viewpoint, rather than reveals a "New Truth" to us. And lest you think I am pointing the finger at you, Terry, please note that I hold myself to this same standard, so that if you can demonstrate that I am guilty of the charge, then I will have to take my lumps as well. I try, but am also less than perfect. I just want us all to be fair and balanced in the dialogue.
Rod P.
Hi Frankie,
One thing that occurs to me in reading something like Wilber's model is the question of breadth and depth. While these models may provide a nice "map", the depth of understanding may not be there, and of course you certainly don't find depth in a map.
People tend to be impressed with ability in a certain arena, or a certain level of functioning, and intellectual ability is certainly looked up to. But of course even if it was, say, athletic performance, the description of the phenomenal ability says nothing about the actual ability to play well. Ability to describe things well could be considered a nice gift, but actualizing the ability to function on a deeper level of what we might call being human, which the smart guy might only describe, is a whole other story.
This is not to place any kind of value judgement on things at all, because of course if one is so inclined and is even good at it then being a "map maker" just naturally suits that person. But from what I have observed in spiritual circles, I have to say there often is this disproportionate development where one level is emphasized to the exclusion of others, in extreme circumstances people don't even eat on a regular basis to support their own health, or is otherwise unconscious of their behavior on some levels. For the most part, in our culture it appears to be a focus on this mapping business, but as good as your map might be you have to actually take steps to walk and get there. In fact, a lot of people haven't even travelled very far, it's like they are compiling a map based on maps other people have made, but they've never step foot outside of their house. Sometimes the map becomes their house.
Mark,
Isn't Wilber supposed to be enlightened?
Now just because Randy can perform this stunt, does not, in my books, disprove the phenomenon of metallic objects having their molecular structure being realigned, thereby permitting such an event from actually happening. There are many incidences of this occurring around the world by common people, without motivation of financial gain. I will spend some time on this topic to gather up some of these cases for you, and post them here (or maybe on another thread).
Karl Popper found the key to science (and progress) as being in the testible. Only a theory or assertion which is stated in such a way that it is testable is valid.
Popper called this principle FALSIFIABILITY. If there is no way to prove a statement, theory, hypothesis or conjecture WRONG it has no value. It merely remains a figment of one's imaginative powers.
Can you suggest perhaps a way your assertion above can be falsified? The Amazing Randy has a million dollar reward for your efforts.
T.
