Saluting the American Flag

by jeffk378 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Bonnie_Clyde

  When I was in high school in the late 50's, the thinking of the Society was that it was OK to stand for the flag salute because that was not the act of worship. It was the pledge itself that was the act. However, they said the standing for the national anthem was an act of worship and that we should not stand for the anthem. However, it you were already standing for the flag pledge, it was OK to remain standing if the anthem came directly after it. I was a very loyal dub during those years, but I was greatful that I was allowed to stand as it saved me a lot of embarrassment.

  I don't know now where I can find those instructions in print.
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  what_Truth?

  I salute the American flag now and I'm not even an American. To me it's a way of honoring the USA, which in my opinion is the only land that will truly give a person the oportunity to rise and fall on their own merrits. It's the only place in the world you can go to with $20 and a suitcase and have a chance to work your way up to a $75,000 a year job without the government taking away half of your income.
  
  That might seem petty, but consider that in most places people are working 60+ hours a week and are barely making snough to starve. In most other 1st world countries, including Canada, when a working poor person decides to take a second job to try and rise above their situation the government will take away almost every penny of their second income and give it to someone on welfare. Not that I have anything against people on the dole, but it sickens me to live in a country that offers almost no chance for real advancement based on acheivment. I'm gunning to get my green card as soon as possible.
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  googlemagoogle

  LOL. why would anyone salute a flag? as for your reasoning, you better salute trees, if they wouldn't exist, you couldn't even breathe. or salute your meal, for without it you'd still be hungry. this is ridiculous...
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  Englishman

  Fags are for wearing, not saluting..

  
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  kls

  It should be ones choice if they want to salute their flag or not but it is the mindcontrol of the wt that says you can't and the mindless flock heed the wt. It should be by choice not control.
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  AK - Jeff

  I don't salute the flag - mainly because I am not sure after 40 years of watchtower propaganda where I now come down on the issue. I would not have any problem standing for the salute or anthems though - I always thought that was amiss. I think that standing is just respect. Saying a pledge still seems to be very close to worship to me... time will mold my thinking on this one.

  On a similar note, did you know that a JW cannot become a Notary Public (at least in my area) as the Notorial Oath requires a pledge to defend the constitution of the state and nation.

  POs Son

  On the notary thing - the Presiding Overseer in the congregation that I attended was a Notary. Also an elder's wife there had been one. That made all the DPA's and blood related documents easy to do at the KH.

  Jeff
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  Big Dog

  Some thoughts on saluting the flag.

  BD

  The Flag of the United States of America

  Nothing evokes such strong emotion as seeing the flag, either a ceremony honoring a great event or draped over a coffin as a sign of mourning for a hero or loved one.

  Its unfurled banner, which symbolizes the love and pride that we have as a nation, is a poignant reminder of America's greatness and our fortune to live in a country which values freedom above all else. It signifies the commitment made by our fallen comrades who battled bravely to defend the honor of this sacred emblem - our American unity, our power, and our purpose as a nation, and it exemplifies the devotion of our leaders who continue to uphold its promise of liberty, justice and freedom for all.

  Our nation reveres the flag, not out of a sense of unquestioning worship but out of a deep sense of our national heritage. Strengthened by our noble deeds, splendid accomplishments, and untold sacrifices, the flag reflects America's pledge to uphold democracy and work for peace throughout the world. It is America's strength in honor, as dignified in the stars and stripes of the flag, which helps to establish the moral character of our national foundation.

  The flag, endearingly referred to as "Old Glory," represents all people of America. We, the people, are America. It is little wonder that the people of America are moved when saluting the flag is it passes by, reminding us that we are a part of this great land.
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  undercover

  I remember being discliplined in school for not saluting the flag. Back then, even standing was wrong. It seems that I have read in the last few years though that the WTS has kind of relaxed their position on the flag salute in that standing is showing respect but saluting it is still worship.

  Even as a JW I thought not standing was showing disrespect so, now, while I do stand and show respect for the flag what I do not do is pledge allegiance to it. While I am grateful to live in a modern, somewhat free society, I refuse to blindly follow whatever path the government decides to do. I agree with some policies and I disagree with others. How can one pledge allegiance to the flag during this administration if they thought the war in Iraq was wrong and that Bush is making ill-conceived plans to wreck their long term security? Too many people mindlessly pledge allegiance because they have been taught the propaganda that America is the greatest country there ever was and that God is leading it. I don't accept that nor do I give my allegiance to any god or country. Not anymore.
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  blondie

  Well, I don't think saluting the flag proves a person is a good citizen, so said my constitutional professor. Then she had all of us write down from memory right then what was in the Bill of Rights. We didn't do so good.

  But then I don't think not standing proves a person is a JW defined Christian. I figure that JWs should show up late or be standing already when the anthem starts out of respect to those who do salute.

  Blondie (disrespectful of no country's flag or anthem)
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  POs Son

  AK - Jeff -- Intersting... maybe things are different out that way. I am quietly waiting to hear of a local dub that is a notary just to ask them how they got out of taking the oath.

  I remember as a kid every time we went to a ball game or other event where the national anthem would be played, we were instructed to "conveniently" already be in the standing position when the tune would begin. I guess that accidentally being respectful was acceptible but intentional signs of respect are not tolerated. It seemed to be odd to me.

  Its ironic, but after escaping some 16 years of JW upbringing, I now:

  • Own guns, and yes... will use as needed
  • Own and display our American Flag
  • Am a member of a political party (guess which one!)
  • Am a member of a firearms based association
  • Vote
  • Take part in local politics
  • Have taken oaths to support and defend the constitution of the state and nation
  • Own and occasionally read a non-JW bible (it has red letters too.... gasp)
  • Go to weddings at churches
  • Toast with a raised glass

  And none of these things are wrong... but for so many years they felt wrong. Well, this is another post in development... but back to the flag issue. Without knowing it, JWs DO salute the flag, they simply do not "Pledge Alliegance" to the flag. The act of standing out of respect is a salute. Like I said above, each person has the right to salute, sit, pledge or recite "I pledge alliegance to the flag, Michael Jackson is a ..." (well you know).

  POs Son
  of the Smith & Wesson Class