Kingdom of the Cults (page 2)

ianao

troubled:

Good luck. If you ever do find any genuine facts you probably won't know it as anyone who sees those facts will just say it's a biased opinion.

I wish you good luck, and you tell me it wasn't NICE?

But now that I re-read my post, I see that the wording COULD have been a bit nicer. I can understand that by the implication that you would not comprehend an actual fact from opinion I have insulted you. For this, I apologize.

Regan is correct on my line of thinking in posting to you previously. I did not mean to offend.

My only "help" was to portray that fact-finding may do you little good, as your "facts" are another's biased opinion.

-ianao (sorry class)

Seeker

troubled,

Of COURSE you are welcome here! Don't let some rude poster turn you away. Anyone is welcome here, especially someone who is searching for answers.

You got some good suggestions for books, but the field is limited. Those that are well documented tend to be immediately dismissed by JWs as "apostate" books, and they reject them. So I like wasasister's suggestion best: Use WTS literature. You'll be amazed to read what the Watchtower actually said way back when. And no JW can object to reading something right out of the Watchtower.

troubled

To Ianao,

Thanks for the apology. It's accepted! (I've been accused of being "too sensitive" in the past, so I may have taken it the wrong way, and you may have worded it the wrong way.) So maybe we both contributed.

In any case, thanks for replying. I feel much better about it now!!!

MadApostate

Dear Troubled:

I have never read this book, but when I first started researching Watchtower history several years ago, I often ran into quotes from this book, many of which turned out to be inaccurate exaggerations.

I seem to even recall one lengthy historical reference to Russell which is in fact pertaining to another man by the same name. The date of such was so obvious that it did not pertain to Charles Taze Russell that Martin must have known that he was printing a lie.

Check out the links the others have provided. Stay away from any not administered by former Witnesses, and then even be wary of any of those that say Russell was a Mason, that overblow the Miracle Wheat or reading Greek issue, etc.

There's plenty of good info to nail shut the JW coffin without having to resort to misrepresentations or even outright lies.

Good researching!

RationalWitness

Troubled,

Check out the Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. It's available from Amazon.com at:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0736900748/qid=996253232/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/104-3898357-6010321

The reviews suggest that the authors have stepped on a lot of toes. I have the book and found its discussion of JWs to be very thorough and more accurate than many other polemics. At least stop by the bookstore and browse through it.

Cheers (and best wishes),
Rational

gsark

Troubled, my dear..

1) You are currently a Jehovah's Witness

2) Anything you read that is critical of Jehovah's Witnesses is going to feel unconfortable. This is the way it is. That's called being human. Nobody here on this board can help you with that aspect of gaining new knowledge. We all went through it as well.

3) This is a good place to come and share your FEEELINGS concerning what you are reading. I too went to Randy's site and didn't read it all at once, I had to stop to cry once in a while. I couldn't finish Crises of Conscious or Blood on the Altar all the way through at once because I had to stop and cry once in a while.

4) Such is the price for personal growth.

I wish you well. I enjoy your postings

Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!

hawkaw

troubled:

As a current JW, I'm not very welcome here, am I?

You are, by the majority on this board, very welcome here and in fact I might say a lot of people are very happy you are here - looking at everything.

If you ever think you are not, I will be right behind you saying you are and support you all the way!!!!

At Randy's site there is a little thingy on critical reading and thinking and understanding what a "fact" really is and what an "opinion" is. I suggest you read it. Click on the following url

( http://www.freeminds.org/psych/criticalthinking.htm

For books go get Ray Franz's book Crisis of Conscience. If you want I will mail you a copy for free. Give your address to Maximus and I will send it your way. This book provides countless photcopies of old WTs, Awakes!, etc. and you can compare them with what is found in your hall library to confirm there was no "hanky panky. BTW remember the WT has gone to the supreme court in the USA more than 50 times yet they have not gone after Ray for libel - that should tell you something!!!! This ex-governing body member a good summary and in a fashion that is not mean to witnesses. His other book "In Search of Christian Freedom" is also filled with photocopies of the WT material.

Penton's book is also worth the time and filled with copies of direct WT material to back it up - But it could be a tough read at your stage in your cognitive dissonance.

Also what issue is that you really want to get into? The 607 BCE date, the 1919 stuff when Russel was the Faithful slave and no one else, the Blood history? What do you want to look at. Let me know and I or someone else can see what we can do.

I strongly urge you to look at all sides of the issue. Take the WT's articles and see if they can stand the test. If you notice any of my posts or Maximus' posts or Marvin Shilmer's post on the blood and blood pamphlet issues, we take what the Faith slave has said in their own documentation and compared it with the actual works. A classic is the Frank Gorman quote in the QFR of the Oct. 1/00 WT that makes it look like a respected Scholar of Theology actually supports a blood doctrine. Maximus shows the actual quote from Frank's book and you see what is actualy written.

Click below and see how Maximus did his research

( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6288&site=3#101415

hawk

p.s. - I don't know if you have followd any of my posts but I have scanned all of the photocopies the the relevant pages say on Joseph Priestly or Louis XI or Pliny etc.

You want them I can Email them to you through people I know as well.

Kingdom of the Cults