GB Admits It Has No Answers, Blood

by Maximus 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Had Enough

    Who is Bianchi and where can I read more?

    Note I already posted this url a little higher on the thread but not what was written. Also go to your nearest medical library at U of T or MacMaster in Hamilton - They will help you too or if you have access to MEDLINE, ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi , you will get about 320 hits when you query "fetal nucleated red blood cells". There are thousands of more hits on "Medline" when you do other quiries of normoblasts etc.

    Click on:

    ( http://salata.mef.hr/CMJ/3902/5-Holzgreve.htm

    or on some computers click on:

    ( http://www.mef.hr/CMJ/3902/5-Holzgreve.htm

    Brief Historical Overview

    One of the first issues that researchers in the field had to resolve was which fetal cell type was the most suitable. Although historically trophoblasts were the first fetal cells found in the maternal periphery (2), research on this cell type has been hampered in several ways, including the irregularity of trophoblast deportation (3), a feature which could be attributed to invariable trapping of these large multinucleate cells in the lungs (4). Additionally, their use in fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH)-based genetic analysis is restricted by their heterogenous genetic nature because of their multinucleate status and inherent mosaicism existing in the placenta (5,6). Another concern has been the apparent lack of specific antibodies (7-9).

    The first results obtained with fetal lymphocytes were initially very promising in that the existence of fetal cells in the maternal circulation was first conclusively proved cytogenetically, by demonstrating the presence of Y-chromosome in a few lymphocytes isolated from women pregnant with male fetuses (10). Fetal leucocytes could also be enriched by the fluorescence activated cell sorting (11). However, their longevity (up to 6 years) rules them out as a serious contender for prenatal diagnosis, due to the possibility of obtaining cells from previous pregnancies (12-17). These experiments did, however, show that fetal cells could migrate into the maternal periphery, thereby providing the basis for a non-invasive prenatal diagnostic test. They also showed that a short lived cell of limited replicative capacity should be selected. This fact was recently underscored by the observation of Bianchi and co-workers (18) who detected the presence of male hematopoietic progenitors after an interval of almost three decades post partum. The cell which fulfills these criteria, easy to enrich for and readily identifiable, most effectively is the nucleated red blood cell – the erythroblast. Consequently most researchers in the field have focused their attention on this cell type. A problem with this cell type, which will be addressed below, is that not all of those found in the maternal periphery are of fetal but are also of maternal origin (19-22).

    Albumin movement will take time to find but I will get it for you. The above url will link you to how they find the cells using PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) and a number of other techniques. They use the the fetal cells in the maternal (mother's blood) to identify problems such as muscular dystrophy etc. Oh, the first fetal cells were identified in 1969 - fetal lymphocytes (Types of WHITE BLOOD CELLS !!!!!!). 1969 for God's sake. As if the WT "HIS" didn't know this when they made their policy in 1990.

    In the above link I give you, you can see a chart that shows for every 20 ml (millilitres) of maternal (mothers) blood any where from say 20 to greater than 2,000 fetal nucleated red blood cells.

    Lets see more stuff you can read. Try:

    ( http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arch/11_2_96/fob1.htm

    ( http://www.geneletter.org/06-01-00/journalwatch/fetal.html

    ( http://www.eur.nl/fgg/ch1/fragx/bloed.html

    I will see what else I can drag up for you. Maybe I might Email you.

    Take care

    Hawk

    Note - I edited one of the urls as I don't think it was still in operation.

  • Jeremy Bravo
    Jeremy Bravo

    I found this on page two again.

    Tut, tut. Now I have to bump it again.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Had Enough,

    Just how much blood is exchanged:

    The maternal (mothers) blood has a fequency of 1 times 10 to the 5th power (100,000) to 1 times 10 to the 7th power (10,000,000) of fetal nucleated red blood cells according to Table 1 in the Prenatal Diagnosis Using Fetal Cells Enriched from Maternal Blood by Wolfgang Holzgreve, Edoardo Di Naro, Alex M. Garvin, Carolyn Troeger, Sinuhe Hahn article.

    ( http://salata.mef.hr/CMJ/3902/5-Holzgreve.htm

    or on some computers click on:

    ( http://www.mef.hr/CMJ/3902/5-Holzgreve.htm

    That is a lot of red blood cells passing from one person to another "NATURALLY"!!!

    hawk

  • Eusebius Hieronymus
    Eusebius Hieronymus

    The question that "naturally" follows:

    To be consistent, why doesn't the FDS permit red blood cells?

    That would solve the surgeon's dilemma in a huge number of cases involving exsanguination of blood; bleeding to death from trauma and the like.

    On what basis could it be reasonably argued that red blood cells are different?

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Jerome,

    The answer is simple - Can you say "lawsuit".

    Say the GB gets this "new light" of allowing whole blood or red blood cells.

    How would you like to have given up your child since 1990 and then you find out that the science used by the WTS for albumin has known for years that red blood cells and white blood cells "naturally move" from one person to another. How would you like to find out that white cells that are banned in a June 15, 2000 WT QFR are actually allowed if taken as a peripheral stem cell autographing procedure (which is the same thing as a transfusion). How would you like to find out the Whole Blood actually "naturally moves" between two fetuses (humans in the eyes of the so-called Faithful and Discreet Slave) in monochorionic pregnancies. How would you feel seeing this science has been around for a long time. How would you feel, especially after you find out this organization has a huge Hospital Information service that is privy to all of this.

    Talk about a lawsuit.

    Oh, just in case you think maybe that the Hospital Information Service doesn't really understand medical journal stuff and you think, well maybe your typical blood nazis has just gone one to many rounds with the "stupid stick", consider the following September 2000 letter by Zenon M. Bodnaruk, Director of the Hospital Information Services (Canada), regarding a response to Dr. John Doyle in the Canadian Medical Association Journal at ( http://www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-163/issue-5/0496a.htm . Note how this WTS guy sites references out of medline to try and support his case. He knows exactly what he is doing and how to manipulate. Based on that you can now see that these people knowingly know that they are needlessly killing people for one reason - protection of the corporation.

    The question is Jerome, what one word best defines the the people who work at the HIS?

    hawk

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Oh, oh! I think I know! Can I answer?

    Is it "effluent"

    It almost looks like, after it has all been laid out by hawkaw, that the WTS and it's arm the HIS have been "expertly" dispensing knowingly flawed medical advice. This had led to the most tragic end for those who accepted this advice in good faith, no?

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    6of9

    Yep

    Keep in mind the shunning controls and now you know exactly how I think .....

    hawkaw

  • CPiolo
    CPiolo

    ^Up.

  • Anchor
    Anchor

    For those reading the Shilmer thread.

    Anchor

  • waiting
    waiting

    Well, "what the heck."

    Who the heck changed the subject of this thread? And how'dja do it?

    And, besides that.......I have read this thread (several times through the twins flow of blood to allow it to penetrate, duh) and M. Shimler's thread which goes hand-in-hand.

    I will not comment because I'm barely capable of comprehension. However, I talked with a couple of close family jw's this past week about the blood issue because my brother in law is contemplating have very serious neck surgery shortly (childhood accident flaring up).

    I really, really, just quietly encouraged them to encourage him to "look up information" for himself. Society has changed blood doctrine a lot." etc., etc. They refused to talk to me and my husband, just dummied up.

    Of course, they did say that the father had been in contact with the Hospital Liason group for information.

    Some of us don't know much, and we're not betting our lives on this issue. Some of them know much less - and won't look for themselves, not even in a medical book.

    Oh well.

    waiting

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