I've never heard this addressed before. According to the WTS, Joe Hoba didn't destroy Adam and Eve when they sinned, because that would have only proven His power...that He could destroy that which He created. He allowed them to stay alive and multiply so that He could prove the rightness of His rule and to answer Satan's criticism. He also sent His son to earth to redeem imperfect mankind from sin and death. So, how would He have worked things if Eve had sinned and Adam had remained perfect? Killed Eve or allowed her to die and created another mate for Adam? What would that prove? Allowed them to procreate? Would their offspring be imperfect, since sins are handed down by fathers? And what if Eve had remained faithful, but Adam had sinned?
What if either Adam or Eve had remained perfect?
by Sith 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Spook
Then either...
I wouldn't exist because free will and circumstance are true. And it wouldn't matter.
or...
I would exist, since predestination is true. And the watchtower wouldn't exist because they teach predestination is false. But since they are the ones teaching that the original intent was earthly life for eternity, that would make all other religions that disagree (most) untrue, and the bible and its god unknowable (if all who claime to know him are wrong).
or...
Since I am glad that I exist, and I exist because Adam and Eve sinned, then I'm glad that Adam and Eve sinned, and I can't possibly be sorry that the world is the way it is. If it wasn't the way it is, I wouldn't be. Therefore I'm glad for original sin, but would be condemned for the logic of my existence.
or...
It's a primitive myth and there may or may not be any god or gods. And since I can't prove that there are, and can prove the positive claims to be absurd, there probably isn't a god.
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lucky
I asked my mom this question when I was about 12. She did a bunch of research but couldn't answer it and eventually asked the "smartest" elder in our congregation to sit down with my and try to answer it after the bookstudy one evening. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was not a satisfying answer, even to a twelve year old. Afterwards, my mom asked me if the brother had answered my question and when I told her no, she told me that I just needed to "trust in Jehovah". That was the genesis of my real doubts (unfortunately, it took me 12 more years to finally leave).
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trevor
Sith
I think you are overlooking the help that was available to them. Although they were the only people in the garden of Eden, the talking snake had friends who could have helped.
Noddy and Big ears were not actually gay but lived in sin with Cinderella outside the garden. They would have brought forth a race of much nicer people.
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Mary
how would He have worked things if Eve had sinned and Adam had remained perfect? Killed Eve or allowed her to die and created another mate for Adam?
Absolutely. Haven't you ever seen the original Stepford Wives? That's what the men did: they killed their liberated wives and created a "perfect" mate instead........now, would God do the same thing?? Well, that's the answer I got when I asked it many moons ago. If Eve had sinned and Adam had've not eaten the forbidden fruit, then Eve woulda bit the dust and Jehovah would have made another mate for Adam. When I was a kid, I always figured that Adam wrote the book of Genesis......when I found out later that it was really Moses who (supposedly) wrote it, I asked "...well Moses lived 1500 years after Adam.....how did he know what happened in the Garden of Eden?" All I ever got was a blank stare.
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Sith
If God's sense of justice allowed Him to kill Eve for her disobedience and create another woman, why didn't it allow Him to kill them both and create another perfect couple? He can't have it both ways. Well, maybe He can...He IS God (allegedly). Maybe because Eve was just a bit player in the Grand Scheme Of Things? Replaceable? Because the human race would inherit imperfection...or perfection for that matter...only from Adam? I don't want anyone to call ME chauvinistic again.
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Carmel
They did! Perfection is a relative term!
carmel
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xjwms
THEY, ... always told us, ... we would'nt be.
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blondie
So, how would He have worked things if Eve had sinned and Adam had remained perfect?
Killed Eve or allowed her to die and created another mate for Adam? What would that prove?
Allowed them to procreate? Would their offspring be imperfect, since sins are handed down by fathers?
And what if Eve had remained faithful, but Adam had sinned?
Disclaimer: Assuming that Adam and Eve were real people. The WTS has put forth these ideas.
The WTS has said that if Adam had not eaten of the fruit and reamined faithful he could have lived forever. He could have had children with Eve and they would have been protected under Adam's faithful situation.
Think of this, Jesus had an imperfect mother but a perfect father, one half of his genetic material came from God. Yet he was perfect.
Also in the Bible, it says that the minor children in a family where one parent is not a Christian is protected by the Christian standing of the other parent. So I think this takes care of the sins through the fathers problem.
But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord: If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her; 13 and a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to [his] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, YOUR children would really be unclean, but now they are holy. 1 CORINTHIANS 7:12-14
w94 11/1 p. 6 Human Suffering?Why Does God Permit It? ***
Their descendants, who were conceived after Adam and Eve had sinned, inherited sin and death from their imperfect parents.?Romans 5:14.
In my questioning, I always wondered at what point would either Adam and Eve been considered worthy of figuratively eathing of the tree of knowledge of good and bad and eventually the tree of life. Now the WTS teaches that doesn't happen until after the end of the 1,000 year reight, faithfully surviving Satan's final test, only then are humans on earth given everlasting life. If Adam and/or Eve had not succumbed to Satan's initial test, what event what test would they have had to pass to be considred truly worthy of life everlasting.
The other question I always had is what does perfect really mean? If Adam and Eve were initially perfect, how could they sin? If they had conditional perfection, what were the conditions and how and when would they be met to receive God's total confidence in them never to fail in the future? Even the WTS when discussing everlasting life in a QFR, says that the people who pass through Satan's final test could still choose to leave God and be destroyed.
g74 6/22 p. 28 Where Did Cain Get His Wife? ***Even though Adam and Eve sinned and became imperfect,
Insight Book Volume 2 p. 251 Life
How does a person get his name permanently retained in "the book of life"? For those who are in line to receive heavenly life, it is by ?conquering? this world through faith, proving themselves "faithful even to death." (Re 2:10; 3:5) For those who are in line to receive life on earth, it is by proving loyal to Jehovah through a final, decisive test at the end of Christ?s Millennial Reign. (Re 20:7, 8) Those who maintain integrity through that final test will have their names retained permanently by God in "the book of life," Jehovah thus acknowledging that they are righteous in the complete sense and worthy of the right to everlasting life on earth.?Ro 8:33.
w91 2/15 p. 18 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***They still need to survive "the great tribulation" and be ?guided to fountains of waters of life,? for Revelation 20:5 shows that such ones will become fully alive, having perfect human life, by the end of the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. Those who then pass a final test in their perfect human state will be declared righteous for everlasting life on earth.?Revelation 20:7, 8.
w67 10/15 p. 639 Questions from Readers ***Additionally, the ones who are resurrected to earthly life and who prove their integrity to God through the millennium and the final test to follow will be recognized by God as being righteous and so will be given everlasting life. (Rev. 20:5, 7-10) When once Jehovah has declared them righteous by recognizing their human perfection and righteousness, no other person in heaven or on earth can destroy them without God?s permission and according to his will. (Rom. 8:33)
As to creating a new wife, the WTS has speculated about that.
w65 12/1 p. 717 Slaves of Men or Slaves of Your Repurchaser?Which? ***If Eve, now a transgressor, could not be used by Adam to bring forth a perfect human race, then God could, in His due time, create another perfect wife for Adam to mother his family in perfection.
Blondie
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scotsman
Noddy and Big ears were not actually gay but lived in sin with Cinderella outside the garden. They would have brought forth a race of much nicer people.
LoL.