Disfellowshipping somewhat voluntary?

by Fatfreek 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Fatfreek

  Isn't being disfellowshipped or disassociated a voluntary thing, in one sense? I mean, when a person is deemed by the judicial committee as truly repentant, there are less harsher disciplinary steps. In cases where there is no remorse, yes, the committee has no choice. Thus, remorse is that voluntary thing I speak of.

  Even faking remorse is a situation we've all seen work with some.

  I was disfellowshipped for apostasy. However, having been an elder once, I knew the steps and that with me it would be inevitable. I had learned too many instances where the Society had lied and blatantly covered things up and I could see that this was a systemic problem, an organizational major fault that spanned some 60 years and such an organization couldn't possibly represent God.

  So, for me to "show remorse" after I'd learned about such dishonesty of record was unthinkable. Further, I suspect that many of the current crop of some 60,000 annual rejects are the result of the "wrongdoer" having suspicions about the Society's culpability over one thing or another. They too don't wish to kowtow to some group of liars they've just learned about. So, more announcements are made and more shunnings are the consequence.

  What do you think?
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  talesin

  What if you are remorseful of the specific sin, the act, and did not repeat it, but were unwilling to show that remorse by returning to the KH?

  Is that voluntary? How can they say, well, you are lying and swearing on Jehovah's name that you are remorseful, but because you don't want to attend meetings, we say that you lie.

  No, the whole arrangement is a sham.

  Here is another point which you may find more valid for argument. If one is baptized as a child, is the b'Org justified in not allowing them to 'take it back' once they come to an age of true understanding?

  Should someone who realizes it is 'not the truth', but was baptized at 12, 13, 14 be held accountable for the decisions of an unformed and uninformed mind?

  t
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  Fatfreek

  What if you are remorseful of the specific sin, the act, and did not repeat it, but were unwilling to show that remorse by returning to the KH?

  Is that voluntary? How can they say, well, you are lying and swearing on Jehovah's name that you are remorseful, but because you don't want to attend meetings, we say that you lie.

  If you are unwilling to return to the KH and attend meetings it's because you no longer buy the whole package they're selling, something inside is telling you not to attend. You are in control and you are voluntarily doing that negative (to the Society) thing.

  Perhaps you, like me, were baptized early (I was 15). I'm with you there.
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  stevenyc

  As they say, shunning is to 'keep the organization clean'. If you are to invite opposing thoughts to propergate through the system, the system will eventually react and changes will have to be made. Disfellowshiping is the only way to maintain order and keep the rank and file.

  However, this is always a temporary solution. Eventually the information gets out. TWO examples; the NGO farse, suppressed until the guardian newspaper published, then an immediet reaction causing many JW's to reconsider, and 1975, threaten the end of the world then saying everyone else made it up, many left. Ok, THREE things, the end of the world in 1929 came and went, and two thirds of the rank and file left. Ok FOUR things, the generation will not pass before the end of the world, the generation went - the world is still here - bring in the new light - many rank and file leave. Ok FIVE things, - ...you know, this is becoming a new thread, I think you get my gist.

  The big problem now facing the watchtower publishing house is the easy access to an overwhelming amount of free and varifiable information. They will enforse a 'Don't look' policy, insinuating apostacy, however they also endorse meditating on the scripture which will mean research. That will be the end of wts autocrostacy and a new type of publishing house. IMHO.

  steve
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  talesin

  Yes, that's a good point. There was no suspicion of the teachings in my mind at that point, just a deep depression and realization of the hypocracy within the congo with regards to behaviours of elders and pioneers / who got away with stuff, etc. I was sickened by the things I had seen, and didn't know what to do.

  It's true that though I still believed in J*h, the end of the system of things, and such, I no longer felt bound to the rules of the WTBTS. So, perhaps I was not as remorseful as I thought ... perhaps I was more afraid of the consequences of shunning ... good food for thought, thanks!

  Do you know what is ironic, though? Let's say your premise is correct, and I was not truly remorseful. Still, I was being sincere and truthful with them ... they, on the other hand, tricked me into meeting with them and told a bold-faced lie when confronting me. Also, two of them were known alcoholics of the falling-down-drunk kind. hahaha, and they judged me. yup, gotta love the irony.

  tal
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  Golden Girl

  I knew a JW woman that was running around like crazy on her JW hubby..he'd go to work and she'd drop the kids off at any sitters she could find..and take off to have an affair..some of them JW's!..Sons of the elders!..

  Well one time she was stupid enough to bring one home. He was a neighbor that was going to the KH but not baptised.

  Well her huuby had a neighborhood snitch that called him. He beat it home and caught them in his bed! He didn't beat the guy up ..he beat his wife up. She came to my house with a bloody face.

  Well that didn't stop her..she just got sneakier.

  Long story short..she eventually got disfellowshipped. No remorse.

  Then she was single..she told me she slept with 50 guys in 30 days!..Unbelievable? Not for her.

  So after she slept with most of the men in town she moved to Calif. where her JW dad and stepmom lived.

  Met a JW and got married!..I wonder what she is doing now..her daughter said her Mom is real jealous if he talks to any of the other witness women.

  After her divorce the hubby got full custody of the kids..she didn't want them. But it seems she got pregnant on the day of her divorce..she kept that one..and went on welfare..and got a free apartment to boot!..Smart lady..And I bet to this day she has no remorse!..But she convinced the Calif. elders..probably because her Dad was a big shot with the JW's there!

  Snoozy...

  Oh yeah..at night one time (Probably more) she put sleeping pills in her hubby's drink..went in the basement and changed..got in the car and let roll down the hill to start..and go to a Country Western bar..met a guy..get it on in the car..and come home and get in bed..her hubby still snoring away! She never ceased to amaze me!
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  talesin

  lol! GG, you got the dish!

  I guess her Df was voluntary omg, this sounds like one of those trashy novels ...

  tal
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  steve2

  If you're born into the religion, raised in it and baptised as a young teenager, only to realise as an older adult that you don't believe it, of course you may voluntarily leave. However, you may find it very difficult to believe that the cause and consequence of your leaving "invites" your being now treated like a dead person.
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  moanzy

  I don't believe it is always voluntary. One elder told me that if someone sins and it is serious enough or quite a few people know about it then you will be disfellowshipped. His reasoning is that they don't want the congregation to think they got a way with it or the elders aren't keeping the cong, clean.

  Moanzy
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  Fatfreek

  "...if someone sins and it is serious enough or quite a few people know about it then you will be disfellowshipped."

  True, enough, Moanzy -- good point.

  In my case, and to this day, one of my sons thinks I am too bull-headed to repent (he confided to my other non-baptised son who passed the tidbit along to me not long ago). In his simplistic thinking, not realizing a smidgin what's in my mind since he's never asked or allowed me to present my case, what's holding me back is repentance before some body of elders. Hey, if I did something that offended someone -- that person is the one to whom I'll apologize. Definitely not to a group of godly wannabees who represent a worldwide organization that has a record of lies and denials. "Oh, we're not perfect and don't claim to be", we've all heard. I say yes, errors are indeed human, but lies go beyond errors -- they are willful and intentional.