Resurrection or Reincarnation

RevFrank

"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bones that you see I have."(Luke 24:39)So meaning that Christ was resurrected.
Now many JWs will quickly go to 1 Corinthians 15:45, where it reads, "And so it is written, The first man Adam beame a living being, The last Adam became a life giving spirit." JW will say he was a spirit.

Yet countless and countless times I?ve asked many JWs that how?s that possible? Jesus said Himself that He was no ghost. Then the JW will explain the Jesus wasn?t recognized at times.
So I then take them to Luke 24:31 where it reads, "Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sights." Then I notice some of these JWs gaze as if they never heard me. A few others argue on so I take them to Corinthians?..
" But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the Glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."( 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
Any other way Jesus would be reincarnated.

Satanus

Are you saying that jesus was not a ghost? Was he a spirit? Is there a difference?

S

ozziepost

Yet countless and countless times I?ve asked many JWs that how?s that possible? Jesus said Himself that He was no ghost. Then the JW will explain the Jesus wasn?t recognized at times.

What it amounts to is that the dubs must believe that Jesus was hoaxing his followers. How else can they explain (properly) the scene where Jesus tells Thomas to place his hand in his side?

Evanescence

Could Jesus's transfiguration be any help?

He transformed when he was on top of the mountain BEFORE he died.

Evanescence

ozziepost

Could Jesus's transfiguration be any help?
He transformed when he was on top of the mountain BEFORE he died

True, but there was no deception involved as there would be if you believed the dub view of the "doubting Thomas' account.

JosephMalik

Are you saying that jesus was not a ghost? Was he a spirit? Is there a difference?

To S and all,

There really is a problem with the way most think or reason on this word. The word or expression spirit has a wide range of meaning that go well beyond the idea of non-human body or form. An immortal human body is called spiritual in scripture because of the God given nature of such a body but few understand this. For some reason what is taught or projected in such texts is lost by the limited grasp of what this word ?spirit? represents. That Jesus was fully human when He appeared to His disciples as shown and will return once again as such an immortal human being should never have been lost to us since it was clearly stated by dependable sources who said: this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts 1:11.

Joseph

hmike

"For the life of a creature is in the blood..." (Lev. 17:11)

"...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God... . " (1 Cor. 15:50)

"' Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.' " (Luke 24:39)

The resurrected body no longer relies on blood to sustain its life. The cellular processes we need to sustain and reproduce life are no longer necessary. There's a new set of laws in play. The spiritual body has substance, but it is no longer bound by the laws of the four-dimensional physical universe that we operate in--it is subject only to the laws of the spiritual dimension, whatever those are. It can USE the laws of this physical universe, but is not imprisoned by them.

Luke and John, in particular, make it a point to demonstrate to the readers and hearers that Jesus had a physical body after his resurrection. To make it into a phantom or vision ignores the intent of the testimony in order to support a theological model where the physical resurrection does not fit.

Satanus

Josephmalik

An immortal human body is called spiritual

Is it nonmaterial?

hmike

Jesus had a physical body

The spiritual body has substance

Is that substance physical? Does spirit have substance?

S

hmike

Hi S,

I don't know if you're thinking of John 4:24 ("God is spirit...), but I'll put it this way:

Spiritual or physical would refer to the basic nature or dimension that is "home." Does everything spirit have substance, i. e. does it have to have mass? No. It would not even have to have form that we can physically see. But mass and form are terms related to our physical universe--our capacity to detect and measure.

The resurrected body of Jesus had a different nature, apparently having the ability to pass in and out of this worldly dimension at will. Once out of our dimension, we would not be able to detect its "solidness" (he's not the "invisible man"). The substantial nature of his body was part of the evidence that he was alive and not some vision with the dead body laying somewhere, yet he also served as a model, or prototype, for the future resurrection, perhaps having to do with a future kingdom on earth ruled by Jesus, but that gets off into another subject altogether.

JosephMalik

"...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God... . " (1 Cor. 15:50)

The resurrected body no longer relies on blood to sustain its life. The cellular processes we need to sustain and reproduce life are no longer necessary. There's a new set of laws in play. The spiritual body has substance, but it is no longer bound by the laws of the four-dimensional physical universe that we operate in--it is subject only to the laws of the spiritual dimension, whatever those are. It can USE the laws of this physical universe, but is not imprisoned by them.

Hmike,

Paul?s comment simply contrasts the mortal body (flesh and blood) with the immortal one that will replace it. It does not in any way explain things the way you do. That there is something different about the immortal human body we will receive cannot be disputed, but we do not know precisely what that difference is. It would be nice to know and be able to explain it the way you do but it is too early to make such assumptions.

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The spiritual body has substance

Is that substance physical? Does spirit have substance?

For S,

The immortal human body promise to mankind is physical. The word spirit does not in and of itself define some sort of non-human kind. This same word applied to a non-human being would mean something else. And the way this term applies to our Lord is yet another matter entirely. Such projections on what spirit means are based on context and this context is based on prior history as explained in scripture. It was God?s intent for Adam to gain immortality. This is what the tree of life symbolized. Yet Adam would still be mortal and according to his kind.

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The resurrected body of Jesus had a different nature, apparently having the ability to pass in and out of this worldly dimension at will.

Hmike,

Jesus did gain a hypostasis nature after His resurrection. This much can be shown. But this is not what is promised to us. What we are promised is what Jesus gained for us when He was transfigured, the same that was intended for Adam if he ate from the tree of life and not the dual nature that our Lord (the Word) as a consequence of all this now has.

Joseph

Resurrection or Reincarnation

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