Anyone heard this new talk?

Dogpatch

I got an email today that says: Hi Randy, I'm from WI and I have a question that deals with the talk ACT WISELY IN A SENSELESS WORLD given by COs. Another former brother told me that he had heard this talk given in Janesville, WI. He took notes and knows that what he had heard was not imagined. The talk dealt w/worldly people being conned by Satan and therefore "willing victims" if they were raped, etc. This brother who told me this also heard the talk given in Milw., WI, but there this "willing victims" tied in with being raped, etc. was not included in this talk. Do you know if the COs are to follow the Society's outlines exactly or is some of it left up to the individual CO like they do with elders and public talks? I don't know if it is possible to get a copy of this outline - ACT WISELY IN A SENSELESS WORLD. This would prove then whether the Society actually feels this way and if it does it is disgraceful. I appreciate your answer to this question. Anyone heard this talk yet, or better yet have a recording of it? Randy http://www.randytv.com

blondie

Was this given at a circuit assembly or a special day?

juni

Hi Blondie!

This was given at local Halls by the visiting CO. for that particular circuit. I've read a lot of your replies and value

your answers. Thank you for your help.

Juni

Amazing1914

Hi Randy,

Do you know if the COs are to follow the Society's outlines exactly or is some of it left up to the individual CO like they do with elders and public talks?

Technically, the COs are supposed to follow the Society's outlines exactly, just as the elders are required to do. However, there is an important distinction that no one ever seems to question. Elders will have an outline of the talk that another elder is giving that Sunday. Elders allow one another a lot of latitude, but will"counsel" one another from time to time about sticking closer to the outline. Of all the Public Talks I gave over the years, I was counseled one time.

However, with a CO's talk, no elder has an outline given to them by the Society. So it is not possible to scrutinized to CO as elders are. A CO would have to share an outline with the PO for that to happen, and to my knowledge, that never happens. So, a CO can get by taking liberties that the Society and local elders will not likely catch ... unless the CO gets too far off track. ( I posted an experience, where in one case, I contributed to a CO being disciplined by the Society for such liberties. )

Notwithstanding all of that, there is another avenue whereby COs will give different details in such talks. After they attend their training programs, they get oral instruction, just as they give to the elders. Each CO may either be instructed to give a talk a certain way, as a "trial baloon" or the CO comes away from such training with different ideas of what he thought was being taught. He may think he is following instruction, when in fact he is really an idiot.

For example, we had a CO who gave a talk on loose conduct that was very stranmge. ( I forget his name, but he looked like Nikita Krushev). In that talk, he gave a long, twisted, and tortured set of fallacies to reach the conclusion that masturbation was loose conduct, and loose conduct was the same as fornication, and thus merited disfellowshipping. When I inquired because of confusion with conflicting Watchtower articles, I was told that this was a "trial baloon" talk, and that we may see more in future Watchtower articles. Go figure.

The problem with all of this "oral" instruction and training is that it is so hard to pin down just exactly what is going on. I never knew if this was something the Society was experimenting with, or if the CO was taking liberties or floating "trial baloons," or the elders were idiots, or a combination thereof. What helped me to settle this issue is that Ray Franz confirmed much of this confusion in Crisis of Conscience and/or In Search of Christian Freedom, when he revealed that it is the Society's unwritten practice to keep the elders and congregations "off balance" with conflicting instructions. If this is the case, then the Society has succeeded very well.

Jim W.

bronzefist

The talk was given in Janesville, Wi by CO named Ferring.( He is moving on....this was his last visit.) In Milwaukee, Wi one week later by a CO named Gezelle{sp?). It was positively the same outline. First speaker used a theme of willing victims throughout the entire talk.....second speaker made no mention of willing victims at all.

Terrorists were mentioned as willing victims as were those abused by priests since each had made a choice to be part of Satan's system of things. I know the talk was taped by someone. Trying to get a copy.

ljwtiamb

I never served as a CO, but was at one point on the wts bethel speaking list.

We had great liberty with our 'service talks', however we were supposed to stick to our outlines for the sunday talks. this sometimes led to occassional confusion and our being counseled as a group. once they told us to develop more meaningful service talks, after one guys gave a talk about ancient coins during the time of christ.

i remember one guy went totally off about how demonized space movies were. this led to the elders sending letters to the wts for clarification after the entire congregation went crazy with questions about new light, etc.

anyway the point that i learned was that speakers sometimes get clear instructions, but if they are far enough up the food chain, they may get away with taking more and more liberties.

ESTEE

get away with taking more and more liberties

It is my opinion and experience that elders' egos get in the way of their sensibilities ... and they express personal opinions that have no basis in fact. However, I also know that elders from years ago believed that if a girl has been raped -- she invited it. They even use scriptures to "prove" this. And first thing they ask in a situation like that is,

"Did she scream?"

Or, "Was her skirt too short?"

"Was her blouse low cut?"

Seriously, this is not anything new ...

And ... No, I haven't heard the talk, as I have not been to a meeting since 1999.

Love and light

ESTEE

hartstrings

Back when I was thick in the borg, I remember our DO telling a story on stage at a CA about how some families have EVEN been known to have parties for their children in which they play organized games and have treats. Do you realize what message that sent the neighbors, they will start to think we celebrate birthdays????!!!! I remember sitting there, shaking my head thinking how terribly judgmental he was.

HS (who just brought her girls to their first birthday party they were invited to)

Mary

Terrorists were mentioned as willing victims as were those abused by priests since each had made a choice to be part of Satan's system of things.

WTF?? Am I reading this right? They're trying to say that a 10 year old child who's been raped by a priest is a "willing victim" because they're not a Witness??

tijkmo

this talk was mentioned about a week ago...here is the link

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90719/1523850/post.ashx#1523850

Anyone heard this new talk?

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