Yes we all heard about the $8 Million dollar CO's Health and Car payment that the congregations are to pay. But think about this next one. How about the yearly (or monthly) insurance premium that must be payed by the congregation to, you guessed it, the WTBTS. The Congregation pays to build the KH. Hands the title to the Society. Pays the loan to the society, pays the interest to the society, pays for maintenance and repair costs and pays the insurance premium for a building they don't even own.
Another way to fleece the flock
by inbyathread 14 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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No Apologies
Hands the title to the Society. Pays the loan to the society, pays the interest to the society, pays for maintenance and repair costs and pays the insurance premium for a building they don't even own.
Ok, why does this idea refuse to go away? The Society does not have ownership of the local Kingdom Halls, yet this assertion pops up about every other week on this board. Here in the U.S. anyway, each congregation has a local corporation that owns the Kingdom Hall.
That, and the one about that not everyone on the GB is of the "anointed" anymore. Sheesh...
No Apologies(of the lets-gets-our-facts-straight class)
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EvilForce
No apologies.... I'm with you.
Everytime I try and explain that a measly million here and a million there is chump change in the big picture everyone jumps on me. They ain't making tons of money on circuit assemblies and whatnot. Sheesh, people come on. It's the POWER trip of it all the GB is interested in NOT the money. They can't be running around the world on private jets and whatnot without people complaining so they are somewhat limited in their expenses....but they don't have to work, live a comfortable life, and their every word is hung on like truths from Buddha himself. So it's the prestige and power folks!!! -
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Gill
Hi EvilForce and No Apologies.
I agree that the GB are 'not in it for the money' but find it difficult to believe that they have no money.
I remember the amount of handshaking and note slipping that went on in our KH whenever the CO and/or the DO came to visit. My aunt and uncle would always hand over £20 and my parents also. Now if you take that there must have been at least 30 plus families in the cong we used to go to that's some tip and I don't think the CO or DO used to just put that in the contribution boxes either. Tax and National Insurance free that's a fair amount of under the counter payment. Members of the GB probably receive the same perks of the job when they visit with publishers. In a life with no expenses that's not a bad windfall most weeks of the year.
The bOrg seems to keep a lot of it's investments in land, property etc where they are guaranteed a steady rise in assets and the money from that comes only from contributions. That's one big investment and though not personally owned by the GB they're guaranteed a 'wonderful life' by the steady contributions from the rank and file members.
It's something that always felt uncomfortable with me that the society were always sending letters asking for money and pleading poverty when it was obvious no CO, DO, GB member etc was poor and that they were a very financially astute organization that felt the 'GREED' asfter all, GREED is GOOD!
As a humble, no body female JW for nearly forty years, I always felt looked down upon and was never every once spoken to or even acknowledged by these representatives of the Almighty God, even when I just said 'hello' in passing.
Therefore, I think they're definitely in it for the power trip.....and the cash!
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MidwichCuckoo
The bOrg seems to keep a lot of it's investments in land, property etc where they are guaranteed a steady rise in assets and the money from that comes only from contributions. That's one big investment and though not personally owned by the GB they're guaranteed a 'wonderful life' by the steady contributions from the rank and file members.
....and this is keeping ''separate from the World''? Investing in it?
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blondie
BTW, last I checked the bank still owns a big chunk of my house yet I pay the insurance.
In recent years, the WTS has not been charging interest on their loans. I think it is the IRS thing again and keeping their non-profit status. The WTS is not handing out many loans in the US any more and has been suggesting that the congregations save up and/or get loans through local financial institutions for the remainder. That explains why some congregations are selling their out-dated halls and sharing KHs rather than remodeling or rebuilding, no money.
I too have posted that the congregations in the US are set up as non-profit corporations. The congregation that holds the territory the building sits on forms the corporation with 3 elders from that congregation. Whether one or 9 congregations share the building, that is the only congregation/corporation that makes legal decisions regarding the sale of the property. If the congregation/corporation is dissolved, then all assets revert to the parent non-profit corporation, the WTS.
Blondie
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tijkmo
so where does the money go then if a building is sold
something i find strange too is that the insurance cover doesnt guarantee you money to fix a problem
e.g.
if you have insurance on your house and it gets broken in and a bunch of stuff stolen..then you claim on your insurance and they give you a check for replacing stuff
but if same happens to a kh..then replacements are supposed to be met by local contributions and damage repaired by local jws
that was the way it always appeared to me anyway...can anyone verify this..and what would happen if e.g. a kh was burned to the ground ..would all the money for a new hall be forthcoming immediately..or if a cong just wanted to move to a new area so decided to sell existing hall and rebuild elswhere would they have to get branch permission for that...i think so...but why...if the hall is theirs
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blondie
so where does the money go then if a building is sold
If they are rebuilding or buying any property, it is held in a savings account to pay out for new land and/or building materials, etc.. If the congregation is being dissolved, then it reverts to the parent non-profit corporation.
something i find strange too is that the insurance cover doesnt guarantee you money to fix a problem.
My house insurance doesn't pay for a leak in my toilet or regular wear and tear. Congregations are self-insured through the WTS. It may not be as comprehensive as some local home insurance. So I guess that as the insurer the WTS decides what they pay for and what they don't.
I don't think the WTS is making much money by not paying for the replacement of stolen sound equipment. Actually, they remind me of many insurance companies that fight you every inch of the way before they pay out.
Nothing legally stops congregations from taking out their own insurance polices through a company rather than depending on the self-insurance of the WTS. Many don't because too many elders are cheap. There is the other factor of liability if someone is injured on KH property. With the WTS self-insurance program, the congregations are off the hook and any JW has to negotiate with the WTS lawyers. I don't know how much liability insurance would cost if each congregation got their own.
The WTS makes most of its money through,
1. Donations for the worldwide work from congregations each month
2. Donations from the assemblies/conventions held almost every weekend of the year, average donation $5,000
3. Donations from JWs to the WTS seeking tax breaks
4. Giving money to the WTS to invest for you (there is a whole brochure on this)
5. Interest and revenues from the WTS own investments
I personally believe that the facility at Patterson and the tax fiasco in France has put a strain on the cash flow of the WTS along with JWs voting with their pocketbooks at points 1,2,3,4. The WTS is rich in property though and I can see them selling more and more as they simplify. The sale of the Furman building is an example.
I don't get too excited about the ethical aspects of the financial doings of the WTS; what got me up and out was their handling of sexual abuse cases and the treatment of victims. Money is easily replaced but what is stolen from those children no one can give back.
Love, Blondie