The facts on crucifixion, stauros, and the "torture stake"

by Leolaia 175 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Alleymom

  
  Kenneson ---

  Thanks for the link to your message with more information about the cross and crown pins. You said they are worth quite a bit. That may be good news for RR.

  Look what he wrote about a year ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/75410/1214558/post.ashx#1214558
  
  

  I visit my inlaw whho is still an active witness and she'salways entertaining the friends and they greet me and we talk as if nothing ever happened. Most of the time when I visit her it's directly from my own meetings, so I'm still in a suit, with my cross and crown pin and my crazy scripture ties.

  I'm going to PM him right now.

  Marjorie
• 

  Leolaia

  BTW, I used the term "breakaway" with reference to parting company with the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, but of course these groups were conservative in retaining Bible Student teachings and it was Rutherford and the Society that doctrinally broke from them....
• 

  rocketman

  Another outstanding thread Leolaia.....excellent work!

  I noticed how balanced this presentation was. For example, I've looked at some web sites that discuss the cross and basically all they do is use Thomas' words at John 20:25, highlight and emphasize nails in the plural, and presto, support for the cross. And obviously, this thread shows very well the slight-of-hand tactics that the WTS uses.

  As Leolaia's work points out, it's not that simple on either side of the cross equation. This thread holds great value for all who have an interest in this subject.
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  pillsbury

  They are still going strong on this one. It is in the new book from the DC, "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" on pages 204-206 in the Appendix

  Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross in Worship
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  pillsbury

  Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross in Worship
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  Leolaia

  pillsbury, or anyone.....Would it be too much trouble to type what it says or scan and post the pages? I'd very much like to know what it says!

  But notice from the title, as in most other articles on the subject, is that the torture stake theory is there to buttress their stand on the use of the cross symbol. That is the main issue, as it was in Rutherford's time.
• 

  pillsbury

  One more time

  THE cross is loved and respected by millions of people. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls the cross “the principal symbol of the Christian religion.” Nevertheless, true Christians do not use the cross in worship. Why not?

  An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Creek word generally translated “cross” is stau-ros’. It basically means “an upright pale or stake.” The Companion Bible points out: “[Stau-ros’] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle … There is nothing in the Creek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”
• 

  Leolaia

  That Companion Bible is an interesting publication. I tried to get around the ellipses in the above quote and in other WT references to the publication to come up with a more complete quote.

  "Our English word ‘cross’ is the translation of the Latin crux; but the Greek stauros no more means a crux than the word ‘stick’ means a ‘crutch.’ Homer uses the word stauros of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics. It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word xulon [which means a timber] in connection with the manner of our Lord’s death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; 1 Pet. 2:24. . . . There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . .The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake, and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle." (Appendix #162 to The Companion Bible, "The Cross and Crucifixion," p. 186).

  I don't know if there are any other caveats worth mentioning (I'd have to check the original source), but this well illustrates the pitfalls of proof-texting secondary sources (appeal to authority), rather than examining the evidence for oneself. The above quote is simply not accurate. (1) The Greek word stauros did refer to the crux used by the Romans in its various forms (cf. Chariton, Josephus, Cassius Dio, and others), as well as to other things, (2) Homer (8th century BC) is the earliest of all the classical writers and used the word stauros before crucifixion was even invented, so quoting him is hardly relevant to the meaning of stauros in the 1st century AD, (3) Homer's use of the word stauros is most definitely not the same "throughout the Greek classics", as later writers began to use the word to refer to the device used in Persian-Punic-Greek-Roman crucifixions (the equivalent word in Latin being crux), (4) What is meant by "Greek classics"? If one means pre-Hellenistic literature, then it is obvious that stauros could not refer to something that had not been invented yet. If one includes Hellenistic literature from the second century BC onward, then we have Chariton and Plutarch who refer to stauros-bearing by victims, and Lucian and Artemidorus who explicitly refer to a two-beamed stauros, (5) The use of xulon does not necessarily indicate the shape of the stauros or whether there were other pieces of wood attached to it, as it is primarily used to evoke the law in Deuteronomy, (6) John 19:17 is one text that practically requires there to have been two pieces of timber, as the reference to stauros-bearing most probably refers to patibulum-bearing, other texts may indicate the same as well.
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  pillsbury

  Sorry. Having cable modem problems and issues getting all of this posted. Let's see if this works.

  THE cross is loved and respected by millions of people. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls the cross “the principal symbol of the Christian religion.” Nevertheless, true Christians do not use the cross in worship. Why not?
• 

  pillsbury

  Last try, The cross is loved and respected by millions of people. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls the cross “the principal symbol of the Christian religion.” Nevertheless, true Christians do not use the cross in worship. Why not? An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Creek word generally translated “cross” is stau-ros’. It basically means “an upright pale or stake.” The Companion Bible points out: “[Stau-ros’] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle … There is nothing in the Creek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber.” In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy’-lon. (Acts 5: 30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means “timber” or “a stick, club, or tree.” Explaining why a simple stake was often used for executions, the book Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung (The Cross and the Crucifixion), by Hermann Fulda, states: “Trees were not everywhere available at the places chosen for public execution. So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed.” The most convincing proof of all, however, comes from God’s Word. The apostle Paul says: “Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: ‘Accursed is every man hanged on a stake [“a tree,” King James Version].’”(Galatians 3:13) Here Paul quotes Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, which clearly refers to a stake, not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person “a curse,” it would not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled. There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Christ’s death, those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the fourth century, however, pagan Emperor Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantine’s motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus Christ. The cross is, in fact, pagan in origin. The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “The cross is found in both pre-Christian and non-Christian cultures.” Various other authorities have linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites. Why, then, was this pagan symbol promoted? Apparently, to make it easier for pagans to accepts “Christianity.” Nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the Bible. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) The Scriptures also forbid all forms of idolatry. (Exodus 20: 4, 5; 1 Corinthians 10:14) With very good reason, therefore, true Christians do not use the cross in worship. * * For a more detailed discussion of the cross, see pages 89-93 of the book Reasoning From the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.