Governing Body and rank and file liabilities

by greendawn 23 Replies latest jw experiences

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  DannyBloem

  The most elders I know are really thinking and trying to do good.

  They do have some power in the congregation and as always with power some people have a tendancy to misuse it. That is not different then anywhere else.
  Are there any good statistics if things are worse or better?, probably not....

  Most of the higher in rank ZO, DO, CO's etc, are the same. They just the same as elders, but mostly even more dumbheaded and singleminded. If you have any own thoughs you never make it much further then elder.

  About the GB, I still did not make my mind up if they really believe it themselves or not. I think probably they do. That does not make them innocent or not liable for their actions of course.

  I think even that they maybe not even think they are lying. As for the changing dates etc. That is not lying, that is just stupidity etc. (It depends on your definition of lying of course, but that is another topic) They maybe believe it themselves. About the scandals and cover ups. That is withholding information, and maybe just they think of not causing the members to stumple.

  Sorry I can't see them as some DR evils 'lets destroy the world' types.

  Maybe not much different then the pope

  p.s. I do not defend them here, I think they are full responsible for what they preach and do.
• 

  rebel8

  IMO every adult is responsible for their own actions. Sure, the brainwashing is a factor influencing their behavior, but they still need to be held accountable for their choices and actions.
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  LongHairGal

  Most of them both GB and RF see themselves as not accountable and not liable for anything.
  
  Just about every dub I ever know feels as long as they do their personal thing i.e. fs, meetings, prayer, they are not responsible for the "big picture" of what happens. Most have what I call a head-in-the-sand attitude. Some are almost wearing blinders like what a horse would wear and would actually become ill if you even engage them in what they would consider a "negative" conversation.
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  katiekitten

  The witnoids themselves are very harsh on people - they say that everyone who does not take time out to measure their beliefs agains the bible deserve to die at the big A, them and all their children with them. If they were judged by their own standards then every last jack man of em would be slaughtered.

  I find it hard to be that harsh. I think of my parents who freely chose to become dubs, then sunk into it and enforced it on me and the cong (my dad being an elder). I cant help thinking they were brainwashed and they were contacted when their lives couldnt have been worse - abject poverty no family or friends around. But at some level they chose to be brainwashed, and I still resent their choice a bit, which deprived me of a full education, friends, roots and balance.

  So I am torn - I think there are definately some who know the score and still enforce it - they are evil. There are some who enjoy the power it gives them - they have potential for causing evil things to happen (think Hitlers henchmen and lesser lackeys), and there are those who have stupidly allowed themselve to be brainwashed. Its hard to decide how much culpability they bear. It depends on your view of human nature.
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  M.J.

  The leaders are just as brainwashed in their divine appointment as the followers are.
  

  http://www.culteducation.com/hgate.html

  Applewhite taught his followers that he was a messenger from an "Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human." He claimed that periodically this higher kingdom sent messengers to earth and that one such previous visitor was Jesus. Applewhite believed he was once "Jesus" in that same "away team" now "incarnated again in...[a] mature (adult) [body] that had been picked and prepped for [his] current mission." He advised that if his followers studied with him, he would become their pivotal link to this higher level. And that only through him would it be possible for them to eventually evolve and shed their human "containers," which were only "vehicles" for this supposed journey...His "crew" was told they must overcome and do battle spiritually with dark forces known as the "Luciferians" and those they influenced. This became a negative label that could be applied to anyone or anything outside the group...It was through a process of rigid regimentation that Marshall Applewhite was able to purge his "class" of their individuality and program their minds to accept his doctrines...

  According to Marshall Applewhite the world was merely a "stepping stone" to "the true Kingdom of God." And this world was about to be "recycled" or "spaded under" because its inhabitants had refused to evolve. Only those who were bound together through his teachings could survive by traveling to the next level.

  The group's suicide was almost logical within this mindset, since Applewhite insisted that "the Truth can be retained only as one is physically connected with the Next Level, through an Older Member" (i.e. Marshall Applewhite). Thus, without Applewhite there was no hope of transition to the next "Evolutionary Level." When he elected to die his followers were obliged to do likewise. It was the only way they could retain "The Truth" and its required and seemingly necessary final step to enter "the true Kingdom of God."

  Everything Applewhite taught his followers was a rejection of their humanity. Perhaps by rejecting his own humanity Marshall Applewhite believed he had finally overcome his own sexual frustrations and mental illness. But the more power he gained over his small group the more intense his madness became, until it finally led to a tragedy that was indeed inhuman.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  I think it hard to separate the wheat and chaff here at times.

  The r&f are clearly not in the lead of the oppression - but sometimes they set a tone that is harmful in the way they follow orders.

  In comparison; Hitler and his immediate henchmen called all the shots - but those running the gas-chambers had to know that this was not right. Culpability is relative - but it is a serious mistake to totally ignore that it is at the 'grass roots' level that most of the atrocities are done. Lack of mercy, forgivness, kindness, love, fairness; it is the locals that put the poison to it's work. And the elders have to know it is wrong at times - as for the average Joe Publisher - he is just like we were before we got out. Not an oppressor - just oppressed for hte most part.

  Jeff
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  AK - Jeff

  Sorry katiekitten - I read your post after I posted and see you even used the same language that I did - sorry! But great minds might run together on this subject....LOL

  Jeff
• 

  steve2

  Some are almost wearing blinders like what a horse would wear and would actually become ill if you even engage them in what they would consider a "negative" conversation.

  People remain in religions despite their doubts because of "secondary gain". The biggest area of secondary gain involves the human need for being a part of something bigger than themselves. Another area is the way we humans so easily get hooked into "needing" others' approval: It hurts to be rejected or disapproved of, so individuals may choose to stay even though the local congrneagtion makes them sick, because to incur mass disapproval would be even worse. Secondary gain - the biggest reason people stay despite the doubts.
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  Stephen John Gault

  If it were only the GB, then you could not hold Germany responsible for the Holocaust, but only those at the top, not the soldiers, not the guards and not those who voted the Nazis into power and kept them there.
  
  Every JW knows, they don't really believe anyone is listening when they prey. They just believe everyone else DOES and conclude they must be right. Every one of them think "It is only me. Bother so-and-so must be righteous. He does not think like me."
  
  And so they persist while no one dare say the emperor has no clothes. Ask yourself which of them would have helped stone you if you were an Israelite and had to be stoned fo working on the sabbath or disobeying your parents. Then you may identify those for which there is hope, but no excuse.
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  A Paduan

  "...he who delivered me to you has the greater sin"