Croatia, Glad you are here!
I'm not too used to this forum -- but happy to see you!
BD
Disempowerment of women WTBS use of that woman Jezebel analogy
by cyborg 16 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
JW83
This is just part of the inherent misogynism in the Bible. If you're interested, get hold of Judith Ochshorn's book, The Female Experience and the Nature of the Divine by Judith Ochshorn. Indiana University Press, Bloomington, 1981' - it is brilliant!
Here is a quote from her conclusion:
In contrast with the more androgynous attitudes prevalent in ancient Near Eastern polytheistic religions, out of which this vision emerged, to transform over time the religious consciousness of the West, biblical views on the seminal importance of gender have helped to shape & legitimize subsequent social ideologies about the ‘nature’ of women / and men. Grounded in profoundly ambivalent attitudes toward women as a sex & an inordinate fear of female sexuality found in parts of the Bible, these views have contributed to a legacy that has been destructive to the humanity of both sexes. Women have been burdened psychologically by a long history of deeply unsettling, mystifying, mixed messages about themselves. Simultaneously, & not infrequently, men have been burdened by a distorted perception of reality when they have used these views to help justify spurious, wildly vacillating, or extreme beliefs about women & about themselves.
-
MerryMagdalene
The section "That Woman Jezebel" in the Revelation/Grand Climax book says:
In modern times, some such strong-willed women have induced their husbands to become apostates and have even instigated court action against Jehovah's faithful servants.
It is only when women step out of line by seducing men or by challenging or ignoring headship that a Jezebel influence arises.
Elders are watchful of trends toward untheocratic attitudes and wrongdoing....Lovingly and firmly, these Christian overseers restrain any female effort to form cliques for promoting moves similar to women's liberation.
Those who have succumbed to this wrongful female influence will also suffer great tribulation--the sorrow of being disfellowshipped, cut off from the Christian congregation as though dead.
To this end, he [Jesus] uses trusted stars, or elders, in handling certain problems, such as any Jezebel influence that appears. After these elders have fully examined a matter of this kind and judgment has been rendered, it is not for individuals to probe into the whys and wherefores of the action taken. All should humbly accept the elders' disposal of matters and continue to be supportive of these congregation stars.
Ya gotta love it...don't ya? This is some great stuff !
~Merry
-
blondie
How come they never talk about that Man Balaam in the congregation?
"‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those holding fast the teaching of Ba´laam, who went teaching Ba´lak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication. REVELATION 2:14
*** w90 4/1 p. 30 "That Woman Jezebel"
"I DO hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols." (Revelation 2:20) So said Jesus to the Christian elders in Thyatira. The congregation was very active and had manifested love, faith, and endurance. But it had tolerated a corrupting Jezebel influence. Why? And could such a thing happen today?—Revelation 2:19.
Likely, no one in Thyatira was actually named Jezebel. Jesus used the name to remind us of historical Queen Jezebel, wife of King Ahab. That strong-minded woman thoroughly corrupted God’s people when she introduced immoral Baal worship into Israel, waging a determined campaign to stamp out pure worship.—1 Kings 16:31-33; 21:1-7.
The Jezebel in Thyatira—either one woman or a group of women—similarly encouraged immorality and idolatry among God’s people. Some in the congregation listened to her, since Jesus speaks of "her children," likely her followers. (Revelation 2:22, 23) Her influence threatened to make the Thyatira congregation as corrupt as was Israel in Ahab’s day.
Why was the Jezebel of Thyatira so influential? Looking at the parallel with Jezebel of old, some have thought she was the wife of the leading elder in Thyatira. The Bible, however, does not say that. More likely, her strong personality and the fact that she claimed to be a prophetess gave her status in the congregation.
It has been suggested that the wrong practices she promoted had to do with trade guilds. According to Dr. W. M. Ramsay, "more trade-guilds are known in Thyatira than in any other Asian city." Of these, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible says: "Every such guild had its patron god, its feasts, its social occasions which could at times become immoral revels. ‘Jezebel’ may have argued that . . . these revels need not be condemned since every workman, to make a living, had to join a guild." The Expositor’s Greek Testament agrees with this, suggesting that those following Jezebel "prided themselves on their enlightened liberalism."
In fact, the teaching of Jezebel in Thyatira resembled "the teaching of Balaam" in Pergamum. (Revelation 2:14) The Pergamum congregation had endured much persecution, but some there were imitating Balaam of old in promoting fornication and idolatry. It has been suggested that in Pergamum, the Balaam influence encouraged compromise so as to avoid harsh persecution, while in Thyatira Jezebel encouraged compromise for economic reasons. Whatever the case, both teachings were death-dealing apostasy.
Could a Jezebel—or Balaam—influence exist today? Yes, indeed. Many leaders of Christendom imitate Jezebel in tolerating in their congregations active homosexuality, fornication, adultery, abortion, and similar things condemned by God. Even within the Christian congregation, a few individuals have promoted a "liberalizing" of true worship, encouraging Christians not to adhere strictly to Bible standards and even promoting immorality.
All who wish to please Jehovah should avoid such ideas, even if they are presented by individuals—men or women—with colorful or forceful personalities. This thinking is as deadly today as it was in the first century.—Revelation 2:22, 23.
-
LongHairGal
It always got to me that they had a problem with women. I noticed they had a problem even if you weren't trying to be noticed (some women are more attention seeking than others). I remember being at a gathering once where a sis. who was at bethel was relating something and she kept stressing how important it was that women have a humble attitude. She stressed it a bit too much. In all honesty I think she was a nut job. But anyway, I was totally turned off and never had any desire whatsoever to be at bethel or any other place where they were. I don't know about anyone else, but I am a free person over the age of 21 and I will be goddamned if I will let anybody deprive me of my god given dignity and intelligence.
If anybody reads the scripture about the capable wife they will be struck with how resposible and intelligent she would have to have been. Her husband prized her for her intelligence! Now, contrast this attitude with todays dub mentality towards women. As I said once, there must be something in the water today because of the ridiculous fear and the unmanly attitude that is displayed. -
Country Girl
I believe that the most obvious, telling thing here is that: those men that wrote the Bible were so threatened by the being of women. They felt so strongly threatened that they wrote many, many verses about how to keep them in control, how to keep them in subjection. But we all know about all the elders' wives that controlled what their husbands did/said. My belief is that women are/were so threatening to the male egos of long ago yesteryear that they had to devise a strategy to keep them all under control, which is that they shall be in subjection to the male. My belief is that God made us *all* equal, and the males, with their delicate egos, couldn't accept it so wrote the scriptures with the bias of putting females in subjection.
The Bible does say that we were made in his image, both male AND female. That would indicate to me that God has both attributes, and since we were made in the image of this deity, both sexes are equal
CG
-
Panda
What a terrific post! I've read some about this and the obvious hatred toward women with power in the Bible. In ancient times before the whole sperm egg thing was known; children belonged to their mother, grandmother and mothers brothers were the closest male relative. Women were feared for their procreative abilities. AND you always knew who your mother was, but not always your father. So men started the whole thing about menstruation being dirty (when before it was magical and proved womens power) --- It was called the wise blood at menapause. Men often performed ritual cutting in order to emulate the menstruating female ... circumcision is one such practice.
A closer evidence (in time to us) would be native Americans. Especially in the East the Iroquoi had descisions of hunting and property (semi-permanent) were made by women. The English and Dutch intruders just never got it, so trouble all around. And the children belonged to mothers and grandmothers. Magic was for women because they could produce life (have babies). They could also bleed for several days during certain times of the moon and not die! Truly a thing to wonder at when men were killed by losing less blood in battles. BTW most War rituals were performed by men.
So Jezebel was a woman of business, real estate and wealth (probably the reasons her husband married her to begin with) and some hairy old smelly prophet of an evil male god says throw her down. Oh please so to show this guy has power over women... Was this the same prophet who called a she bear to eat some kids because they called him "old baldy" oh maybe not I think the other guy was hairy.