by ithinkisee 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
I have read in some places that the Trinity doctrine as presented by the WT publications for dissection is not really the Trinity doctrine but actually is an apostate doctrine from the original Trinity doctrine.
Is this true? Are there some good references for this? Most of the ones I have Googled have been very confusing.
Thanks in advance,
-ithinkisee
Could be, i dunno. I do know that the wt lies about what is the current catholic trinity dogma. The wt says that it is 3 gods. That is nowhere stated in the catholic definition. The catholic is 3 persons in one god. It is very simple, yet the wt changes the meaning from what is stated. I guess they like to make it sound like something harder to accept than what it is.
S
Right. According to a Walter Martin MP3 I listened to recently the original definition is one God with three natures - i.e. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I just wanted some more input on the change from that to the three god thing ...
any thoughts?
-ithinkisee
Here are some quotes:
*** w91 11/1 p. 19 Part 1—Did Jesus and His Disciples Teach the Trinity Doctrine? ***
The Trinity DoctrineNearly all churches of Christendom teach that God is a Trinity. The Catholic Encyclopedia calls the Trinity teaching "the central doctrine of the Christian religion," defining it this way:
"In the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: ‘the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.
*** w89 3/15 p. 18 Insight That Jehovah Has Given ***
Is God a Trinity?
3
Christendom has staunchly maintained that those who do not affirm belief in the Trinity are heretics. But instead of being intimidated by men, Jehovah’s servants have recognized that, not the traditions and creeds of uninspired men, but the Holy Scriptures provide the standard for discerning what is truth. Building on this foundation, way back in 1882 these dedicated Bible students clearly stated in the Watch Tower: "Our readers are aware that while we believe in Jehovah God and Jesus, and the holy Spirit, we reject as totally unscriptural, the teaching that these are three Gods in one person, or as some put it, one God in three persons."
*** w84 3/1 p. 23 United in Worship Under Our Shepherd-King ***Their worship is not distributed to three gods in one, the so-called godhead of some mysterious Trinity,
The wt rejects the three gods in one. Christendom does as well, but the wt lies about that, as is plainly shown above.
S
I was in christendom for 2 yrs after leaving the wt. During that time i also read some church history and some systematic theology. I never saw the 3 gods in one idea. As far as i can see the this is a wt fabrication about christian belief.
S
From the catholic encyclopedia:
the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
Go there, read it for yourself. As well, google baptist systematic theology, or any other mainline religion. I'm sure that none of them use the 3 god trinity.
S
The Nicene Creed was more concerned with explaining that Christ had the same nature as the Father, to counter the Arian view that Christ was on the side of created beings, having a lesser nature than the Father. If I'm not mistaken, the objection that many trinitarians have to some of the later Catholic creeds is the assertion that all 3 are of equal authority, while the bible clearly shows the subjection of the Son to the Father, and of course the Spirit acts according to the will of the Father.
What the WTS presents is not consistent. At times they will imply the Trinity is Modalism (the father, Son and Spirit are the same person) and attack that strawman. Other times they'll imply the Trinity is three gods in one person and attack that strawman (like conjuring an image of a three headed person). At other times they'll describe the actual doctrine.
The orthodox position would be that there are three distinct persons with differing roles, who are equally eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and thus are are God (one God).
I guess it would be pretty hard for more than one person to occupy the same space, but that's the claim. It's a far cry from the idea of God sitting localised and aloof on a throne out there beyound the limits of the limitless universe
There's an interesting article on the Trinity that you might like to look at:
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6048
I guess it would be pretty hard for more than one person to occupy the same space, but that's the claim. It's a far cry from the idea of God sitting localised and aloof on a throne out there beyound the limits of the limitless universe
In the vision Stephen had before he was stoned to death, he saw Jesus standing at the right hand the Father. The book of Revelation also separates them.
