Happiness

by philo 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  philo

  THe WTBTS is looking to the perfection of the obedient humans in happiness. But they have also acknowledged the psychological truth that happiness is not a state we can arrive at, but is a process of change, transformation and book selling.

  My question is, is the idea of humanity ever being perfectly happy fundamentally flawed? Do we need to be discontent as humans in order to continue human progress, transformation etc and gain temporary happiness along the way? Also, would we be happy to have God put a perfect system in our laps, righteous and unrighteous people, even true blue dubs, would that make them happy?

  philo
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  Frenchy

  Good question. Can there be a high without a low? Hot without cold? Good without evil or happiness without sadness?

  I suppose this could easily develop into an argument of semantics as to what those words really mean. The truth of the matter is that we have all lived in a world where those extremes exist and we have all, to some extent or other, been exposed to, and/or experienced those extremes. We are thus 'contaminated' and unable to truly contemplate a situation whethere happiness can exist in a world where there is no sadness.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  crossroads

  Two of the apostles, Paul and John have spoken
  on this they said " Happiness is a Warm Gun "
• 

  Andee

  I'm with Frenchy on this one.

  I will also add, without sorrow there is no joy.

  Did you see the movie "Pleasantville"? Two kids go back in time to a TV show made in the 50's. Everyone is happy and everything is perfect. Life is black and white and has a "sanitary" feel to it. To me, it also came across as quite unsettling. Of course, as the characters became more complex the movie(or TV show, i.e. life) becomes more colorful. I won't go into the plot too much, but some really want to maintain the "black and whiteness" and become very hostile to those that are becoming colorful. It's a lot like the WTBTS.

  To be human is to be, like Frenchy said, "contaminated". Without it we have no humanity. We become "Stepford People".

  Andee
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  philo

  Frenchy,

  Our basic human thinking, where we identify something having a roof as either 'a' house, or 'not' a house, is binary; achieving these is our goal. All 'more than' or 'less than' valuations and identifications are less satisfying to us, they are practical distinctions, which we would like to clarify oneday if possible. Are these the semantics you referred to?

  Also, I can't help but think of the analogy of matter/energy and space; there is energy, or there is emptiness. Space seems an 'unhappy' state to me, but we are of course 'made' physically of space and matter. So it's more than being 'contaminated' with these values, I think we are constructed by them.

  Andee, I liked the idea of pleasantville, but the film got boring quite soon, (I hope I'm not making this thread boring too) which is a nice irony. It seems I have contradicted your remarks about 'colour' in human life, and yet I agree with you completely! So I think we need colour to challenge our assumptions, to allow us to see things differently,in new spectra, then we can continue to ask questions and struggle to understand. We struggle to conquer our universe through knowledge, but if we achieved that conquest we would be unhappy. LOL

  philo (unhappy with life, afraid of death)
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  Frenchy

  Is happiness merely a state of contentment wherein one is not troubled by anything or is it a condition of elation and joy as the result perhaps of some good fortune?
  If happiness is merely not being troubled then without ever having the awareness of trouble could we be happy and would we be able to identify this condition?

  I think it becomes more of a problem not so much of whether or not we could be happy without sorrow as much as the problem of whether we would be aware of our ‘happiness’. Is happiness the absence of sorrow or is sorrow the absence of happiness? In a world without happiness, would we recognize sorrow?

  Having experienced both we can never truly say. Just like virginity can never be regained nor can innocence, we have tasted of the fruit and our eyes are now open and we can never live in the Garden of Eden again. But white is never whiter than when it is against a background of black and had we been left in that state of ignorance of sorrow we would have never known just how good it can feel when things are right. So many things which are playing against each other…

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  stephenw20

  Philo,

  if you want to be HAPPY
  ............................................. REMOVE
  .........................human
  thinking.

  In ~IT~ remains the FLAW

  Non Human thinking has worked in the past and
  GOD uses it everyday

  S
• 

  Frenchy

  The problem with removing human thinking is that your humanity goes with it and then you are no longer human. Sort of like killing the host to get rid of the parasite.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Andee

  Philo,

  I agree with you about the movie Pleasantville getting boring fast! It was the underlying message of it that always stuck with me.
  Besides, I paid my money and I was going to sit through it, dammit!LOL

  I could go on forever (and hopefully this post won't go on forever) about the philsophical idea of happiness. However, I'm here to live life NOW, and being the practical creature that I am, how does "happiness" manifest itself in my everyday life.

  I think most confuse happiness with contentment. Contentment being that, for the most part, we are satified with the choices we have made and the direction our life has taken. I think it is important that a life have direction and meaning. I have that right now. I'm a housewife and stay at home Mommy. My life right now is dedicated to raising two decent human beings (my children) that will, hopefully, will be released into this world to do good things. Sounds trite? Maybe. However, I actually do not see anything more important in this world to do, than that.

  Does that mean I'm "happy" all the time? Heck no! Especially when my 5 year old son spills a whole bottle of apple juice on the kitchen floor, and even after mopping up many times, my shoes still stick to the tiles. Or when I learned that my eldest was gravely ill, and may lose her life (she didn't), those were some very sad days for me. Happiness seemed lost to me forever. However, when I find a forgotten $20 that was stashed away, or my kid tells me he loves me, my happiness abounds!

  I think also our attitude about life in general makes a difference about whether or not we are content. I think if one goes looking for all the bad without taking in the good there will be little happiness.

  I disagree with Stephanw20 post of removing all human thinking. We all have benefitted from it greatly. Medicines that save and technology that improves lives. Why it is that everything negative is attributed to "human thinking", yet, nothing positive is?

  Frenchy, liked your last post. I think I will just keep my little parasite, thank you very much

  Andee
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  stephenw20

  Frenchy,

  I can appreciate your point, but feel humanity is not in the mind...

  its ~about~ us not in us........ we can become it... or not.....

  Removing HUMAN thinking in my original post was just to look @ things k at a higher form of thought.......unless you feel that the creator is not humane.

  Which would beg the question if he is .. why are we here

  TTFN

  Your welcome to that point as well........I just dont agree with it....