"And war broke out in heaven" - Why and how?

by truthseeker 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  truthseeker

  
  I don't know if anyone has brought up the subject of "the war in heaven" before, but I have a few questions. Maybe Leolaia could help out with this one.

  Revelation 12 talks about a war in heaven - Now this is not just any war. There are no casualties (as far as we know), no combat injuries and no conventional weapons.

  Verses 7 - 9 desribe this war...

  Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

  The Bible does not say how they were defeated. Apparently, Jehovah allowed the "war" to take place. What a strange sight it must have been or would have been

  if this has not yet happened.

  verse 9 continues...

  9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

  I wonder how they were "thrown down." What kind of temporal portal existed between heaven and earth? How long did it take to get here?

  verse 10 gives us the reason why war broke out. Apparently, Satan was dissin' Christ's brothers and they couldn't take it anymore...

  10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"

  What gets me is why earth had to be the demons final destination. I mean, why? God knew what would happen were we to have aliens on this planet, invisible, dangerous and predatory. Why not send them to Mars, or Saturn or another galaxy?

  Is this Bible account on par with any other legendary "heavenly battle?", say among Greek Mythology.

  One thing can be said of the angels though - they differ in power.

  Daniel 10 says the following...

  11 And he said to me, "O Daniel, man greatly beloved, give heed to the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for now I have been sent to you." While he was speaking this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12 Then he said to me, "Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your mind to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words. 13 The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, so I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia 14 and came to make you understand what is to befall your people in the latter days. For the vision is for days yet to come." 15 When he had spoken to me according to these words, I turned my face toward the ground and was dumb. 16 And behold, one in the likeness of the sons of men touched my lips; then I opened my mouth and spoke. I said to him who stood before me, "O my lord, by reason of the vision pains have come upon me, and I retain no strength. 17 How can my lord's servant talk with my lord? For now no strength remains in me, and no breath is left in me." 18 Again one having the appearance of a man touched me and strengthened me. 19 And he said, "O man greatly beloved, fear not, peace be with you; be strong and of good courage." And when he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, "Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me." 20 Then he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia; and when I am through with him, lo, the prince of Greece will come. 21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince.

  The Watchtower interprets this account as saying that the angel was held captive by a "prince" - a demon ruler of Persia. He had to wait until Jesus (Michael) came to rescue him. Then the angels tells Daniel he will "fight against the king of Persia, and then Greece."

  And you thought angels were only messengers??

  This account shows that angels (demons included) differ in power and strength and abilities.

  Any angles to these bizarre accounts in the Bible?
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  A Paduan

  Before you look into the location of portals, where did Christ say heaven was ?
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  Flash

  1. And you thought angels were only messengers??
  2. This account shows that angels (demons included) differ in power and strength and abilities.
  3. Any angles to these bizarre accounts in the Bible?

  1. At first I accepted this because I hadn't given it much thought before. Now I believe they have their own diverse society with varying cultures and live semi-autonomous lives similar to us.
  2. The more I considered the known hierarchy, I came to believe that God is at the top of the power pyramid. With each type of intelligent creation being created (including His Son) being made less powerful than the ones before. As humans, I believe we're at bottom of the pyramid of 'intelligent' life.
  3. It seems God allowed those who ceased obeying Him to remain in heaven to mingle among the faithful allowing them time to do their best to persuade others to reject Gods authority...during this time one third left. I wonder what steps God took to limit the losses while this was happening or if He allowed the messege of the rebellion to be spread unanswered and was strictly a time limit thing?

  Also, it does seem creation is multi-diamensional, with at least 3 heavens mentioned in the bible. Based on observing our physical diamension, I'm inclined to believe there are a great many, not just 3 or 7 or 10 but possibly millions, if not billions.
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  Qcmbr

  I see the war in heaven as happening before Adam. A third of heaven didn't want to come to earth and try free will and potentially fail to achieve all they could. They preferred a plan that involved nobody failing by forcing everyone to obey and live a sinless life.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  Any angles to these bizarre accounts in the Bible?

  only ones that involve angels.

  that's some weird circular...
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  greendawn

  I think when we read in Revelation heaven and earth we should not perceive them as literal but as symbolic, signifying mental states.
  
  To be thrown down to the earth means to lose rights, power, status, and dignity and enter into a humiliated, downtrodden state of mind. The war mentioned there is obviously a spiritual war, mind to mind, and in this sense even humans can participate in it.
  
  This may be refering to the war between the two sides since the days of Jesus on earth covering the entire history of the church.
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  MidwichCuckoo

  9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

  I was taught that this happened in 1914 - hence the Great War on Earth too.
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  Dan-O

  "Any angles to these bizarre accounts in the Bible?" Jesus thought that Satan was stockpiling Weapons of Mass Destruction. And given that God had also fought against Satan just over a "Biblical" decade before but didn't quite finish the job (no doubt due to Gabriel's cousel about the lack of a clear political objective)? Jesus decided to invade, too, and finish the job.
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  greendawn

  But the 1914 date turns out to be false, and originally they were expecting armagedon at that time. The first world war did seem to be the result of binding satan at the earth but then it appears as coincedence.
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  Dan-O

  But then they dug back & discovered that they had already predicted 1914 as the year for Satan to be OUSTED from the earth, so they let the hubbub die down.
  
  New light, and all that.