Does the WTS disfellowship mentally challenged people?

by Elsewhere 46 Replies latest jw friends

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  bavman

  I have an uncle who use to take walks through the woods and all of a sudden thought he was in the new system...he was schizophrenic. He ended up in a mental institution where they introduced him to smoking in order to calm him. He was d'fed and has been for over 25 years.

  A cousin of mine who is what we always called "slow" (actually borderline retarded on the side of the retarded line), was df'd over 10 years ago as well.

  My ex father-in-law elder who has been an elder for over 25 years stated to me that even a mentally retarded person knows the difference between right and wrong.
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  swiftbreeze

  Yes, I remember when i was a kid a brother in my KH was df'd and he had a mental problem. he would do all kinds of weird things..like make up his own territory for fs..etc etc...i don't know why he was df'd though.
• 

  Es

  Wow what an interesting post and interesting replies. I feel that if that person couldnt be baptized without serious coaching from there study conductor well there study conductor should be accountable aswell es
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  jimakazi

  No - the mentally challenged are still faithful members.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  I see very serious issues here that the society has only covered in a broad way [ thanx blondie for the quotes]

  1 - Where did these men get the idea that baptism can or should be allowed only to those able to answer 70 or 90 or whatever it is now, 'Questions for Baptismal Candidates' in the first place? There is little or no scriptural indicators that salvation associated with Jesus' ransom application was reserved for those smart enough to know the answers. I always thought this was wrong from the time I was baptized in the early 70's. So, why would such ever prevent baptism to begin with? Aside: if in fact it has spared the agony that comes from the equally unfair application of scripture to the disfellowshipping process, then to that benefit I say Horray! But I hold to the opinion that anyone who wishes should be able to enter into baptism, if indeed that is the only means to salvation. Why should those persons with less than 'normal' mental capacity be in this sort of limbo. Of course, I do not believe that witness baptism is of any greater significance than any other now.

  2- How would men that call themselves Christian elders ever take a position that assumed they could understand the mentallity of one who was challanged so as to determine 'repentance'? For that matter, isn't that judgment given to Christ?

  Oh, what a tangled web is created when we attempt to frame righteousness by legalistic means, instead of letting the Reader of Hearts do the job he is assigned.

  Jeff
• 

  tijkmo

  During a CO meeting with Elders just a few years ago this was outlined. It would depend on a case by case basis...does the person have the ability to live on their own...can the person hold down a job...etc

  yes i remember this....in the elders book it does say that someone with mental problems should be treated compassionately! and the above statement was given to us to insert as a guide

  there is a difference between mental illness though and mental handicap...in an old kh of mine both a mother and daughter were some what challenged but both were baptized and pioneered..though their effectiveness was...well i have no wish to be unkind...im pretty sure though that if they ever got involved in wrongdoing they would not be df-ed

  but i was mentally ill when they df-ed me...they thought i was faking it...they told me an appeal on the grounds that my emotional state was not taken into account on the night of the jc were unfounded and would not be considered..(http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/93181/1575944/post.ashx#1575944)... as a result of which i soon became worse...even to the point of not being able to work...not that they cared one whit about that

  now that i dont go to meetings anymore everyone thinks im mad anyway so i just use this to justify my reasons for non attendance etc...heaven only knows they are unable to understand the real reasons..and if they ever tried to df me again then i would use it then..if i wanted which i probably wouldnt

  Oh, what a tangled web is created when we attempt to frame righteousness by legalistic means, instead of letting the Reader of Hearts do the job he is assigned.

  nicely said jeff

  tijkmo of the more you stamp your feet to prove you arent mad the madder you appear class
• 

  blondie

  Has anyone ever seen a situation where the WTS disfellowhiped someone who is autistic, retarded or otherwise mentally challenged?

  I just thought I would show that Elsewhere's original question was about people who have diminished intellectual capacity, not able to take care of themselves perhaps, a condition that no amount of treatment or medication will raise their IQ, that they were born with less IQ..

  Mental illness is another condition where the IQ of the person is not insufficient, just not being accessed because of various mental barriers, some treatable, some not.

  The fear of parents comes in with the WT teaching that adults who are not dedicated, baptized JWs will die at Armageddon. So are these developmentally challenged adults, responsible adults or unresponsible children of dedicated, baptized JW parents. If adults and not baptized, they die; if unresponsible children of dedicated, baptized JW parents, they live.

  This fear kicks in too with JW parents in the question, at what age do you children become responsible adults before God? That is why you are seeing younger children getting baptized. The parents think it is a talisman that will protect their children.

  Blondie
• 

  LouBelle

  DY - you said that for a mentally ill person to get baptised or d'fed would be wrong.....okay I'm just trying to get my thoughts into order & I don't know if it's going to come out right....no I actually can't put into words what I want to say - but in short I don't think that it's wrong for a person, even if mentally ill, to get baptised.

  Blondie posted something from the WT on that "some family merit may apply" - can't believe the society even had the balls to say this - Does God work on a merit system, ticking off as you go along, and perhaps if you've earned extra credit you'll be better off.

  Thank goodness I left that vomit behind.
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  undercover

  The truth be known, most JWs are mentally and socially retarded...and I don't mean that in a funny or sarcastic way.

  At least those that grew up in it anyway. We never learned how to use cognitive thought processes, we never learned how to deal with social situations. When we realized the "truth" was a lie, didn't we have trouble adapting to the real world around us? That's because our growth as adults had been retarded by our association with the JWs and the mind control that took place there.

  Back to Elsewhere's question: The only cases I knew of where there were mentally challenged people associated with the JWs, they were basically treated as children. They were brought to meetings, they were taken in service but just sat in the car, they went to assemblies, they enjoyed the picnics but were never considered a publisher. Usually the rest of the family were baptized JWs and the mentally challenged one was in their care. The congregation did little or nothing to help them out. It was as if the handicapped person didn't exist.

  I remember a physically handicapped man who came to all the meetings with his mother. She had to take care of him as if he was a baby. He couldn't do anything for himself. Mentally he was fine but he was paralyzed from the neck down from an accident. Very few people offered to help her. No one even bothered to pick them up for the meetings. She had to hire a guy to drive the van around. He would drop them off for the meeting and he'd come back two hours later to pick them up. When she died, I never saw the guy again. I don't know if he went to live with relatives or got put in a home, but he never came back and nobody seemed to even notice. No one asked, no one cared. I was just as guilty as the rest of them.
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  Why Georgia

  Our nephew is developmentally disabled with Asperbers (sp) Syndrome. He has studied his whole life with the brothers but has never been baptised. He really wants this but for some reason it hasn't happened.

  Now I wonder if it hasn't happened because they won't let it happen.

  I also wonder if these same brothers count their hours when studying with him and if they do...then why can't he be dunked.

  WG