Need help on the trinity and John 1:1

toladest

My brother, who has been DFed for many, many years is going to a Baptist church. He just started attending recently and had a discussion with the Baptist minister about the trinity. My brother still believes many doctrines of the JW's. Seems that this minister was not prepared to speak to an ex-JW and could not answer some of my brothers questions, so he thinks he is winning the battle. When I first left the WTS I read an article somewhere about the Trinity and the NWT version of John 1:1. It was really in depth and used the Kingdom Interlinier Bible to show how JW's mis-translated John 1: and it compared it to other verses in the bible. I have only been able to find summary versions of this and I was hoping someone could direct me to a more in depth study.

Personally, I don't subcribe to ANY religion and I don't believe that the bible is the word of "God", but my brother does and I would like to use the bible to show him how the JW teachings don't even fit the bible.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

googlemagoogle

actually the NWT translates john 1:1 pretty well. the problem here is, that the meaning has to be translated, not the words alone.

if you translate word by word, it would be:
in the begining there was *the* word
and *the* word was with *the* god
and god was *the* word

now in english that sounds like "the word" = "the god", but that's not what the greek text suggests. notice that there's no *the* before the final god, which means it's not the specific god, or god the almighty, but more it is the nature. or *godly*.

thus some translate "and *godly* was the word". "and god was the word" is ok too, but the meaning is not as clear. "and *a* god was the word" or "and the word was *a* god" as the NWT puts it, is just as correct.

Satanus

As google said. I will try also to explain the 'god was the word' part. Commentaries always say that this phrase is a reversed structure, ie, the subject ( word) is at the end, the predicate (god) at the beginning. As such, it is describing the word. The word 'god' is used as an adjective, a general word as google said. It does not referr to any specific god, just a quality or nature. To illustrate, i could say, 'the house was made of wood'. Reversing that to make it the same construction as the greek god phrase would be, 'wood was the house'.

S

upside/down

Sounds like your brother still likes being a Dub... just without the Dubs.

A hall mark trait of Dubs is they love to "win" (or at least think they are) any and all arguments...not because they are so right... but because everyone else is soooo wrong (or ignorant).

u/d (of the give it up and go fishing class)

greendawn

I also agree with you, the key sentence in that passage transliterates in English from the Greek as "And god was the Word" which sounds as if the Word was God Himself but in the Greek that's not the correct and intended meaning it means rather that Jesus was a God ie of Divine rather than of human or even angelic nature.

In fact the Greek equivalent to Jesus being God Himself would be " And the god was the word", that would definitely indicate a Trinitarian concept. That definite article "the" makes all the difference.

LittleToe

Are you sure that it would pose a Trinitarian concept, if reversed?

Wouldn't it rather indicate that the Word was the Almighty unitarian God (singular)?

googlemagoogle

however, although john 1:1 does not suggest that the word = "the" god, it does not refute the trinitarian concept either.

one huge problem is, that many don't even know what the trinity is all about. and that the trinity is not one single concept, but there are many concepts. it's more or less a matter of definition. even the JW view could be called trinity.

mad max

To tell you honestly, the only way your brother will ever find out about John1;1 is to get the KIT (the kingdom interlinear translation of the greek) the society's pub. Then get another Greek Interlinear from a Christian bookstore, get himself 2 or 3 different bibles, a bible dictionery, sit down with all that and pray for God's Spirit to show him.

Believe me when I was confused with the topic of the Godhead / Trinity, I went to the one pastor or elder in this church, he said to me that he could not tell me (not because he did not want to speak to a exjw, or because he did not know) because YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR OWN REVELATION FROM GOD.

And if he really wants to know, it will be shown to him.

The Society have liad to him and me for years and years. They have changed the bible and put in words and taken out. I am not just saying this, I have had to go and look all this up. I have been on to web pages, freeminds, etc etc.

God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit are one, that was and still is new to me, but it was revealed to me from God himself, and that is what your brother has to do, it must be reveled to him by God.

Can check www.uq.net.au

Lots of subjects, but very SIMPLE, excellent read.

Godhead, Jesus if he should be worshiped, The Holy spirit etc etc

All the best

max

googlemagoogle

And if he really wants to know, it will be shown to him.

LOL. i guess he doesn't really want to know. that must be it.

upside/down

I'll never "get" the obsession with either pro or con "Trinity"... Who give a flying leap?

If JC is "God"... great!

If JC isn't "God"...great!

If JC is HALF the person both sides claim he is...then he has enough intelligence and heart to realize that mankind hasn't been given enough CLEAR CUT information to make such a life and death situation decision... the jury is OUT. There is no agreement. Thousands of sects of "christianity" prove this out.

I say we all ignore "The Lord" till he pulls his collective head out and tells us why it's so damn important in the first place and why, if it is so important (which I doubt), he wasn't CRYSTAL CLEAR... like the Ten Commandments were....thou shall or shalt not...

Wise up people.

u/d (of the Life of Brian class)

Need help on the trinity and John 1:1

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