How about I underline this for you again
My intention was not to argue existence of god of religions in any sense. (If in doubt please reread what I’ve already written on this topic).
Not sure if it can be any clearer!?!
really. we are always going on and on about it on this board. check out SNG's continuing articles on evidence for evolution. sorry i missed your question about complexity. let me get to it, okay?
I've never really seen any, but then again I've been around just a short time as an active member. Used to be more interested in human side of the story,
so you want us to prove it to you instead of you doing the work yourself? and are you being fair in asking complex questions and then complaining when they are too detailed and don't encompass the big picture? and again, this is about ID vs. evolution. not ID vs. abiogenesis (origins).
Again we are going in circles around the same issue, all I asked was some clarification of what forces are at play that make evolution possible. Kind of like extreme gravity causes black holes type of an answer. Which is something I can easily relate to same as you can to black holes, knowing the significance of the mass and gravity it doesn't take great leap of imagination to figure out that there might be a place with an infinity gravity where from not even light can escape.
so it's not easy to understand in a single discovery channel hour. so what? i would say that if god designed it all, it would be easier to explain, wouldn't you? afterall, he'd have given us the blueprints by now. of course, nature is not a blue print system, but rather a genetic program that simply executes it's algorithms. hence the stunning diversity.
Again not an issue see my first response above. I'm not discussing god in religious sense, so it is pointless to continue in this direction. As far as I am concerned might have been aliens that planted life here, NOT AN ISSUE.
If you want to make “converts”- that really is a silly thing to say. i want to do nothing of the sort. i debate these threads because i don't want lurkers from the WTS thinking that creationism goes unchallenged around here. they make up their own minds.
Did you notice that word converst was written as "converts". I could easily have expanded in this form - If you want to convince people to accept your point of view on subject you are deliberating.
p.s. I could have equally well told you, "please study physics", couldn’t I?again, the discussion was not about origins. so i don't see why you keep bring up physics. but even so, i do study physics. and i don't go around asking physicists to cite examples of complex equations that explain super string 11 dimension hyperspace in a "big picture" sort of way. i read their books. and i don't get upset if they tell me to go read some more books, because that is some of the best advice i could possibly hope for from a string theorist. incidentally, the co founder of string theory, Machio Kaku, has come under some flak for kind of trying to dumb the theory down so that the general public can understand it. i have nothing against that. but what i do, is when people who have heard the dumbed down version want to be held by the hand through the complex version, maths and all. i don't see why people get mad at him for not being as accesible for the complex stuff, as he is for the simple, PR, stuff. but the fact of the matter is that it's ALL complex. equations on paper are neat and tidy. nature, and the explanation of it, are no where close to being neat and tidy for marketing purposes.
Reason I pointed that out was to make you see it how I feel when you say in a sense "go and study biology" when I asked a simple question, it didn't have anything to do with origin of life anymore at this point. I mean the whole context of my last post is so obvious. Here is again danger when you dissect my post and in process loose the track of the essence of what I write was all about.
I mean why even start this sort of a discussion if you guys are not ready to answer questions, what's the point? Is it only to pat each other on the back? I mean really, here we are having discussion about an important issue and as soon as more challanging post comes along we get into rethoric mode that is intended to make feel a person asking a question like an (biology-wise) uneducated idiot. I mean come one if you think you are right and make me run for cover give your best shot.
I'll tell you something about me personally, sometimes I get pi*** off and basically bored when I see only one sided argument (regardless of what the topic is) and simply want to through something in to make discussion more lively to get people really come out of their shells and show what they are made of. Sometimes I do it even if I agree with certain point of view, but it is alway good to ask challanging question in order to show the strenght of something not its weakness.
I’ve asked you to give me examples where complexity of design didn’t require a designer, simple.why don't you try foccusing in on something that you want to know about? i will do my best to answer it. until then, i am at a loss as to what to choose for you out of billions of complex biological systems. why?
frankly, your question doesn't really make sense. you want examples? like just a list? i could list every living thing, and then just say that it does not require a designer because it is shown to work via evolution very well without one. but that is precisely why i say that you should read a book, like The Blind Watchmaker, or The Panda's Thumb, or The Origin of Species.
I think this has been amply explained above, and for the record I did read Origin of Species (see my second post on this topic) as well as a number of other works. By the way, did you have a chance to read Forbidden Archeology by M.A. Cremo and R.L. Thompson?
Great book!
And since we are talking about the Physics so much, let just say that there is quite a big place for physics because of one simple reason - Nature does not make difference between biology and physics, it is all a part of the integral whole. It is only us humans that like to make differentiation to make things easier for ourselves. So when we discuss origin of life we should not shy away from other disciplines.
But I will take your advice on the board and now more than ever investigate as much about evolution as possible so as to ensure it really explains everything it claims it does, and also so that I don't have to ask question about it from people who are not ready to discuss about it when asked questions.