How I Married A Borg

by Ray Skyhorse 11 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Ray Skyhorse
    Ray Skyhorse

    Hello everyone. I’ve been posting for about a month now. I’ve finally finished writing about my life. It’s long and complicated. Life can be messy (especially when you’re a bisexual ex-Catholic married to a Borg).

    This is the story of how I came to marry a Borg.

    In the late 80’s I fell in love with a pretty, intelligent college woman. We went to UC XXXX together. I studied poli sci and she studied anthropolgy. We lived in the same dorm together for a time and we did lots of fun things together. She was very vivacious and funloving. We were a couple for about a year an a half. We were lovers and the best of friends. It was the best of times.

    As graduation time drew close for me we broke up. I was the one who initiated the breakup. It was a stupid, immature thing to do. I think I did it because I thought life would be less complicated without a long distance relationship (I was moving back with my parents in Los Angeles). She dropped out of college and eventually decided to return to the mid-West, where she grew up.

    I realized I was a fool for breaking up with her and I tried to reconcile with her. We both still loved each other but now we had a long distance relationship to deal with (in an era before email was common). But the distance turned out to be the least of our problems. She started studying the bible with some JWs whom she had met at work and she joined the Borg Collective.

    I remember when she became Borg how she sent me a little book about evolution and creationism. She was a former anthro major -- I couldn’t believe she could believe this JW crap. We would spend hours on the phone with me trying to convince her of the falsehoods of her newfound faith. Eventually, she said that the elders told her to stop talking to me about their doctrines. Soon thereafter, we stopped talking to each other except for an occasional phone call every three months or so. We loved each other but she was Borg and I wasn’t. We remained friends, our friendship preserved by the memory of our love for each other. It was a very dark time for me. I ended up having a number of relationships with women that weren’t really emotionally fulfilling. I’m bisexual by nature (though I tend to prefer woman) and I had difficulty meeting women whom I could feel safe talking to about my sexuality. (My fear comes from my screwed up, anti-gay, sex negative attitude of a Catholic upbringing.) I abused alcohol and marijuana at this time. I abused these substances to numb the loneliness in my life. I continued to abuse these substances until only a couple of years ago.

    In 1991 she married a fellow Borg. She married him because she was lonely. They were married for 5 years. She said she never loved him. They never had any kids together. They eventually divorced. She said that she never loved him. I don’t think either of them had an affair either. I don’t think either of them were DF’d, but I don’t know for sure.

    During her marriage, she started getting some counseling and taking Prozac to deal with depression. She began to deal with child abuse issues that have plagued her since she was a little girl. Her mother and father are both alcoholics and her mother severely abused her both verbally and mentally as a small child. Her father turned a blind eye to the abuse. I think that this abuse turned her into a “Borg candidate”. I think that the Borg was attractive to this emotionally damaged woman. It gave her structure. It gave her rules to live by. These are things she never had as a child.

    A short time after her divorce she called me. We hadn’t spoken since her marriage. I eventually went out to see her. She didn’t look good. She had lost a lot of weight and she was already a skinny gal to begin with. I was worried about her but I hoped that the worst was behind her. We spent a few days together. We even made love one night at the hotel I was staying at. It was a big surprise for me and I saw it a good sign that maybe she would leave the Borg. We talked about getting back together but she was still a Borg and I wasn’t. Times marches on. We keep in touch over the phone, only talking to each other every couple months or so. Each time we talked its like we are picking at the scab of our love. We knew we still loved each other, we knew there was hope. I continue dating other women and getting stoned a lot. During this time I even had a infrequent sexual relationship with my best (male) friend.

    In 1999 a college friend of ours in California was getting married and I was invited. I debated whether to ask her to come as my guest and she said yes. It was wonderful seeing old friends again and having her at my side. It was like we were a couple again. Soon thereafter, she invited me and a few of our old college friends for a weekend to a condo in the Rockies that her mom has. One couple that came are in a mixed marriage -- Jewish and Catholic. We knew that they went through a lot of bullshit before they got married, but they overcame it. They brought their two little kids. They are so fantastic. They are being raised in the tradition of both religions. Seeing how they overcame their religious differences gave us the strength to overcome our differences.

    About a month after this encounter, I invited her spend the weekend with me. In was a very romantic weekend in Santa Barbara. We went to the beach and we talked about marriage and how we would raise children. She agreed to let me celebrate everything that I’m used to celebrating and that our children could also celebrate these things. I agreed to let her take them to bible study. I proposed marriage and she accepted.

    She came out to California and we got married. So far we've been married a year and half and we now have a 6 month old son. So far, life with her is better than life without her. True, she is Borg and is therefore not living life to its fullest. However, I’m not lonely anymore and have a beautiful son whom I love very, very much. I enjoy being a dad.

    So why am I here posting ? My life sounds grand doesn’t it? Wrong. She developed a repulsion to oral sex!!! I think that oral sex is natural and I refuse to live without it. We both have enjoyed oral sex together over the years. Then about 6 months ago, around the time my son was born, I noticed that there was a decrease in the amount of oral sex we were having. I figured it was due the pregnancy -- we weren't having much sex anyway. However, when we starting engaging in sex again a few months after the pregnancy, there was no oral sex involved. I kind of ignored it at first but eventually, I realized that something was wrong. She just kept quite about it, like I wouldn’t notice or something. I told myself that the Borg must have screwed with my wife's sex program. I confronted my wife about it. She claimed she found the practice "revolting" and that she no longer wanted to have oral sex. I knew she was lying to me and to herself (based on our long sexual history together). I figured our marriage was headed to divorce. She was totally unwilling to compromise on the issue. I figured we would get divorced since I didn't want to be married to someone who couldn't compromise and because I didn't want to go without oral sex the rest of my life. A breakthrough came when she talked to the wife of an elder about the issue. It turns out that this wife of an elder and her husband had an issue with oral sex some time ago. They talked to a CO about it and he said it was ok for married people. After talking to this woman, my wife did 180 degree turn and said she like oral sex again. (If that's not proof she's in a cult, I don't know what is!)

    Fortunately, this issue didn't destroy our marriage but it came pretty damn close. I now think of my wife as a ticking time bomb. When will the Borg doctrines hurt us next? I’m now determined to get her out of the Borg. I’m reading “Releasing the Bonds” by Steve Hassan and trying to develop a strategy to get her out. I know it may take a long time. Since I been on this website I’ve learned a lot of things. Knowledge is power and I’ve learned just how dangerous the Borg really is. I know I underestimated that danger factor because I was blinded by love. However I’m hoping that same love will give my wife and me strength we need to overcome her Borg programming.

    Peace,

    Ray Skythunder

  • Francois
    Francois

    Ray, I hurt for you my friend.

    Suggest you attack the Borg with its own words, not the observations nor approaches of others. And believe me, they can be convicted out of their own mouths, there's so much bullshit they've authored over the years.

    I've used the false prophet approach successfully before. See Deut. 18:22, and then establish all the times all their prophecies have failed, which is every time. Hammer on that. Because it can't be denied. It just can't.

    Suggest "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz. And for very good, very effective insights into the nature of cults and perhaps even clues as to why she may have joined in the first place, try "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer.

    And I wonder about the slow approach. How much time do you have to spare? How much time before - god forbid - your son is injured and needs a blood transfusion and she says NO NEVER? And it means his life? Maybe you'd better get going.

    Francois

  • think41self
    think41self

    Hello Ray and Welcome to the board

    What a story you have told. If I didn't believe in enduring love before, after reading your story I would. You and your wife have been through a lot...and are still together. That is beautiful.

    We all take different approaches trying to reach our loved ones. I cannot tell you how best to reach her. I do agree with you that she sounds extremely programmed...which most JW women are. Just a side point...does she work outside the home? It's been my experience that something as simple as that forces women to face more realities of people in the world, opening your mind to other thinking, etc... If you could ever get her to read Crisis of Conscience...that might just do it for her!

    Good luck in your endeavors..and I am glad you settled that whole oral sex issue, to your mutual satisfaction

    think41self

    "When agnostics die, do they go to the great perhaps"?

  • jurs
    jurs

    Dear Ray,

    I'm here to offer you some encouragement. I feel hopeful about your wife. The #1 reason is that she was not raised as a JW.
    In order to get her out you must be very careful. JW's are very paranoid about "satan" triing to pull them away from Jehovah.
    I too was not raised in the org and married to a non JW. If my husband would have expressed concern and said there were a few issues troubling him, I would have gladly gone over it. I would be delighted that maybe something would reach his heart. Choose just 1 or 2 points at a time and be laid back about it. plant little seeds of truth but not too strongly. I think its best to use scriptural points at first rather than get into the history right away. Really know what your talking about first. Go get out of her book bag the small brown book called "reasoning from the scriptures". That way you will know how she will respond to any of the questions you will bring up. If you need help on what scritures will back up your point, come and post it. We'll help ya !!!!
    This is just a suggestion. You know your wife best. I hope things work out for you both.
    jurs

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hello Ray,

    Nice to meet you. I think that a fine way to help ease your wife from the org. is through association. Invite your friends over as often as you can. Get your wife to meet other people, make friends. Keep her busy. Try to "help" her miss meetings as often as possible while having a good time.

    "Bad association spoils useful habits." Habits like staying in the WTBTS.

    We even made love one night at the hotel I was staying at.

    Whether this was a one-time occurence before your marriage or not - if she's an honest person, and a strong jw -- there's no way to reconcile this fact with her conscience. Has she gone to the elders about it - to confess? If not, imho, it would be hard on her jw conscience from the type person you describe.

    Does she like to read outside the org.'s books? One book I've recently read is a popular one now "The Red Tent". She might read it - more of a woman's novel. It's about Dinah and the account of her being raped. But it goes into great detail about a woman's life back then and midwives, etc.

    But it makes the people very earthy - which is what they were, sheepherders. Puts a real different tailspin on the account. Made me think. It's written by a Jewish woman - so it's not against the Bible.

    Just a thought.

    waiting

  • Francois
    Francois

    Jurs is right Ray. And her observations can be combined with pointing out the truth concerning what JWs have said, right out of their own mouths.

    In short, this technique could be summarized as planting small, non-threatening seeds of truth in her mind, and then letting Truth crowd out the error.

    Truth has a power unconnected to the truth teller, so that the truth keeps on working after you have stopped talking.

    This is a lot quicker than trying to remove error by main force. You can't take something out of someone's heart. You can put something in, truth, and then let it crowd out the error.

    You will let us know if it's working?

    Francois

  • Ray Skyhorse
    Ray Skyhorse

    Thank you everyone for your encouraging thoughts and suggestions. I know that was a long post to read. When I read everyone’s replies this morning, it gave me such a good feeling inside -- the understanding, the compassion, the generosity is so heartwarming to me. Thank you all very much. I will gladly keep you updated as time goes on.

    I know I have a long journey ahead of me. I know too that to be overtly confrontational with my wife would be disastrous. I must be like the constant drip of water on a piece of granite, slowly wearing it down over time. I feel that to take too aggressive of an approach would only lead to intense cognitive dissonance in her and would result in her pulling away from me.

    I am definitely going to use the Borg's own materials against them. I plan on planting little seeds of doubt (truth) whenever I can. How do you suggest I do this? How can I do this in a nonchalant way? I don’t want her getting suspicious but I need to be planting small seeds of doubt on a continuous basis without making her defensive.

    Francoise - I’m definitely planning on reading Franz’s book in the near future and the Hoffer book sounds very interesting. Does it touch on deprogramming methods?

    Waiting - I’d like to know more about “The Red Tent”. How would her reading that book be beneficial? Would it make her question her programming? Or would it simply get her mind off of the Borg? She hasn’t read any fiction in a long, long time. The Borg has eaten away at her leisure time.

    Jurs - Thank you for your encouragement. Your words give me hope. My situation seems somewhat similar to yours. Were you in the Borg a long time? Did your husband plant seeds of doubt or did you discover them on your own? I’ve heard it said that the longer somebody is in the Borg the harder it is to get them out. Thank you very much for your specific recommendation regarding the “Reasoning from Scriptures” book. It is knowledge from former members like this that I find invaluable.

    Think41self - My wife is currently a homemaker. She does get out to do some extracurricular activities with other non-JW moms during the week so that is good. She used to work with non-JWs before our son came along. She associates quite a bit with “worldly” people. I encourage this as much as possible. I’d rather have her go to a gymboree class with our son than to go publishing.

    Thank you,

    Ray

  • jurs
    jurs

    Hi Ray,

    Sorry it took so long to respond , I haven't been at my computer in a while.
    I was in the org. a total of 10 years. 7 years baptized and I studied before that for 3 years.
    My husband never opposed me going to meetings and never questioned any of my beliefs.
    I think your smart knowing that you can't come on too strong, if you do it will backfire.
    I thought I'd throw out an idea for you to try. In your wifes books, there is a maroon book called The Greatest Man who ever lived.
    Turn to chapter 86. Its called the story of a lost son. Read it. Read it several times. Jehovah's witnesses do not welcome back repent wrong doers as Jesus illustrated the father of the son doing. When someone has been disfellowshipped and they repent. They are still shunned when they come to the kingdom hall. Its not until elders decide that he has shown repentance by their actions and it is announced that the wrongdoer will then be talked to. I think its a strong point. It reached my heart when it was pointed out by the poster Mulan.
    As a suggestion, perhaps after you have read the chapter and you feel confident that you know what you are talking about, bring the The Greatest Man book to bed with you and your bible. Turn to that chapter and read it . Likely she'll be surprised to see you reading it and she'll probably make a comment about it . She might ask why you are reading it. Tell her you are interested in the life of Jesus. Perhaps tell her that you've already read this paticular story and it moved you. The word pictures of the story gripped your heart. Imagine how overjoyed the father was and how the son must have appreciated his fathers complete forgiveness. Then in a very innocent way ask her how Jehovah's witnesses are to wrong doers. Ask her to explain the shunning. Ask in a humble and non threatning way. Do your best to look like your truly trying to understand. Give the impression that your open to her beliefs. Make sure you LISTEN to her. Nod your head. Look like your giving a lot of thought to any of her answers. Then gently point out that immediately the father forgave his son and that the Pharisees were critical of mercy shown to sinners.
    She may try to convice you that it really is loving to shun unrepentant wrongdoers. She may tell you that when they are repentant they will be welomed back. Ask her if they are welcomed back right away. Mention that you have heard that they have to go to meetings and show their repentance before it is announced that they are reinstated. Is that how Jesus illustration was ?
    If at any point you sense her getting defensive back down.... Tell her you are not trying to upset her, you just want to know what God really thinks. Point out that it doesn't matter what Catholics think or what JW's think or what either of the 2 of you think but what God thinks. ( thats a brownie point ) JW's use that line all the time. When she makes a point tell her that her point is interesting and that you'll think about it but your still uncomfortable that it doesn't seem like Jesus would handle it like that, but maybe your wrong. ACT HUMBLE.....
    Anyhow, this is just a suggestion. Its a simple subject that might be good to start off with.
    Keep us informed.

    Jurs

  • Ray Skyhorse
    Ray Skyhorse

    Hi Jurs,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. (I noticed you were in chat today but you left just as I entered.)

    I wanted to share with you my strategy for getting my wife out of the Borg. It's a work in progress.

    a) Show her how much I love her in little ways. I think love is a strong weapon against the Borg. I'm starting to do this immediately. Sometimes its easy to take a spouse for granted. I need to show her how special she is to me.

    b) Put up a web page with some family photos. My wife has been following the Borg mindset and is trying to stay off the Web. I think by putting up a website for our family I could get her to use the Internet more. Maybe at some point her curiosity will lead her here. We have a computer at home but she doesn't use it.

    c) I need to distract her so that she misses more meetings. I think fun things would be good. Maybe I should start going to see movies on nights she goes to her meetings. Maybe she'll feel "left out" and skip a few meetings. Other ideas to distract her????

    d) Subtley attack the Borgs policies, using their own literature against them. I'm going to start doing this after I finish reading Hassan's book. I want to better prepare myself before I start. I am going to follow your suggestion about reading in bed. She leaves her JW materials on the nightstand and I think I could casually start reading them and asking her questions about them. I'll try the passage you suggest.

    One thing that I think is working in my favor is the amount of time she's been in the Borg (12 years). At first, I thought that longer someone is in a cult the harder it would be to get them out. However, according to Hassan, one of the "good" things about a person being in a cult for awhile is that they have had time to see all the hypocrisy and prophesies that fail to come true.

    Thanks for giving me the pointers, Coach Jurs. I'll keep you all informed as time goes on.

    Peace,
    Ray

  • jurs
    jurs

    Hey Ray,

    Your ideas are great. You seem like a wonderful husband. Keep us up to date with your progress.
    jurs

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