by freedom96 17 Replies latest jw friends
He is convinced that there is no way I will be able to prove that the WTS is not the true religion.
Would he read a book? I cant see how any witness can read Crisis of Conscience and still believe that the WTBTS are right. Dont go to his meeting, stick with saying your conscience wouldnt allow it, it'll hopefully provoke him to think more about WHY this is the case.
Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.
Paul.
Hi there & I hope you can get your son to go to another church - it will be an eye opener and he will realise that they are not some evil place - I was surprised when I went to my first church meeting.
The first thing you need to try do is undermine his faith & trust in the G/B / Faithful & discreet slave. Break that trust & he'll probably be more open to other things. The best bet is to bring up all the old prophesies - starting from the 1880s' & working your way up, show him how this "voice of God" hasn't actully told the truth when it came to these things (there are many many many & all of them have watchtower backing)
If he throws the "but they're only human & imperfect" excuse at you, tell him that the men of old were imperfect & yet whent they spoke on behalf of Jehovah they were right every time.
If you'd like a list of prophesies & some truly strange doctrines they were teaching give me a private message. I'll give you the publications & dates.
Another thing is use various bibles. Do you have the greek bible that the society brought out??? You can use that to show how they've changed the wording from the greek translation to their own - I have a list of scriptures for this.
Best bet is to remain cool & collective even if what he says is complete nonsense.
All the best.
There are are few things:
1st: Do you believe that where you go now is the true religion?......Im sure he will ask you that and then want you to prove it.
2nd: Did you ever read 'Crisis Of Conscience' and 'In Search of Christian Freedom' both by 'Raymond Franz'? If not you should read them and then try to get him to as well or at least some of it.
3rd: Does he know about the UN scandal?
Any of these should open his eyes to the truth, for me all it took to start me doing research was the UN scandal I found out about that around the end of May or the first of June, as of June 30, when it was announced at the hall, I am no longer a witness. I hope it goes well for you. Thanks Yvonne
The exercise of just asking him to go to your church might make him realize how much JWs lack tolerance, when he realizes he is not supposed to go. People said that same thing to me in FS and I came to that realization. Of course I said no, but it did make me take notice of how hateful JWs are toward other religions while demanding tolerance and open-mindedness toward theirs.
Ideas:
Basically, I suggest trying to help him to understand the WTS is not God's organization. Whatever religious beliefs he wishes to retain after that are probably not harmful to him, but affiliation with the WTS is. Links to all of the above at the same site.
we were able to tell him before he went to the assembly that he should listen very carefully for how much they were going to emphasize obedience to the organization.We are hoping that gave him food for thought.
That is a great idea! If he hasn't gone yet, perhaps you could ask him to keep a tally of how many times it's mentioned. JWs are told that repetition is a teaching tool, but in reality they do it waaaay too much and it became a brainwashing technique. Might open his eyes if he has an actual measure of how often it's drilled into their heads.
A lot of good, hard hitting points impossible to justify by a dub have been mentioned on this thread and pointing out even some of these may create those healthy doubts that can develop later on and help him see the truth about the borg. At least he will have to see that the "apostates" have valid points against the WTS.
My son and I agreed that all information that I present to him will be from the WTS itself.
He asked for time to investigate the information that I give him, so that we can have an intelligent conversation. I think he is bringing his Watchtower CD and who knows what else.
Which is fine, so then I can show him the original magazine articles, and he can see that they changed some of it when it when to CD.
Also, if anyone has any ideas of what to talk about first in regards to proving the WTS is wrong, dead wrong.
So much to choose from, but the one that stumped my local PO was Romans 13:1.
The current teaching is that taught by watchtower from 1880s until 1929. 1929 to 1962 was Rutherford's wrong teaching as Gods messenger. He got new light in 1962 (which was thinly disguised reversion to the pre-1962 light (the one most Christian religions always taught. Despite the 1962 new light, it took until the 1990s to use this ald/new understanding to properly accept alternative service for military service.
The evidence of Watchtower publicaions caused the PO to admit that there was no information from God after all.
So......... what if I promised to go to a meeting (gag, cough, cough) if he were to agree to go to my "church?" I would make him go first of course. At this point he seems open minded, at least to have intelligent conversation about it. But I don't see him going with me, even if I offer. I just don't see it, though perhaps the offer should be made. But then again, then he will know that we are going to a "church," not sure how that will affect him. So, is it worth asking him to go? Even if I have to edure a meeting?
Sure...by going to the KH, you're showing that you're not afraid of it. It's not like you're going to get zapped into believing it again. It doesn't work quite that fast. But it shows your son that you can be objective and reasonable, especially when you ask him to go to your new church. What excuse would he have for not going? His conscience wouldn't allow it. That's the same excuse you were trying to give for not going to the KH. Not a very good excuse.
Even though I don't believe any religion anymore I don't have a problem with going to an occasional service of any religion if circumstances call for it. Hell, I survived 40 years as a JW, I can take an hour or two of about anything else. This does two things. One: It shows others that I'm not afraid of or too prejudiced against what they may choose to believe. Two: I usually come out of any religious service, JWs included, feeling grateful that I have released myself from the enslavement of religion and glad to be free to follow my own path without fear or guilt.
