American Hiroshima? (page 2)

Leolaia

I read a news article several years ago on suitcase nukes, which explained that they have a short shelf life. If they are not used within a certain window of time, their components degrade. While they still can be used as radiological dispersal devices, Soviet suitcase nukes would not themselves be able to reach critical mass unless they were refitted or, better, reproduced by talented nuclear scientists. Even if such devices work, the yield is only 10-20 tons for the PU-239 (or 100 tons if the weapon is in fantastic shape) .... a tiny fraction of the 15 kilotons (15,000 tons) produced at Hiroshima, much less the megatons of energy involved in hydrogen bombs. The radiation drop-off is also steep, with most of the radiation gone within a few days. A deadly device to be sure, worse than 9-11 in scope, but not "city obliterators" either.

On edit: Interesting the article mentioned a yield of 2 kilotons for these devices. Is that an exaggeration, or a technological advance on the part of Al Qaeda?

IronGland

a tiny fraction of the 150,000 kilotons

I think you mean 15 kilotons.

Leolaia

Yeah, I fixed the typo...comparing tons to kilotons...apples and oranges

IronGland

comparing tons to kilotons...apples and oranges

its going

upside/down

Well...if it does happen...all the American "bashers" will have a new, not so nice entity to start "bashing"...

And I don't think they take to well to criticism...

Whew....at least Denver wasn't on "the list"....I feel so much safer now...

u/d (of the Gawd help us class)

Elsewhere

Many people like to talk about how "easy" it is to explode a nuclear device. What they fail to realize is just how difficult it is to do.

Sure, get yourself some military grade uranium and setup something that will explode and slam the pieces together to reach critical mass and you get a nice 10 Kiloton explosion. What most everyone seems to forget is just how difficult it is to get this to happen.

The first problem is, of course, obtaining the highly refined uranium. It is impossible to produce this stuff without leaving signs of the process that can be detected from great distances. If you buy it will cost a small fortune. As an example, the navy is constantly taking water samples from the oceans around all of the continents. If anyone is producing enriched uranium they will inevitably release trace amounts of very rare elements that can only form while making enriched uranium. The navy will then detect this and will know that someone is up to something and will be able to start tracking down where those rare elements are coming from.

After that is the problem of handling the material. To put it simply... if you don't handle this shit correctly, shit will kill you long before you have a chance to make any bomb including a simple dirty bomb. Whoever handles it will have about four days to set off the bomb before he's dead. In all probability this person will be the suicide bomber who sets it off and by the time he tries to set it off he will have severe radiation poisoning that will make him look like the walking dead and will stand out in a crowd like a sore thumb.

Now, lets talk about making a nuclear bomb explode. Just because you slam two pieces to uranium together to make the needed critical mass does not mean you will get a nuclear explosion. You have several difficult problems to get around. First, you have to ensure that the conventional explosives do not explode so quickly that they rip the uranium into small fragments. This means you need to control just how fast the explosives explode. Material like military grade explosives explode very quickly while material like black-powder explodes very slowly. You must find an explosive material that is somewhere in the middle that will not rip the uranium into shreds. Once you solve that problem you need to ensure that the explosives are strong enough to actually heat the uranium enough so that the two pieces melt and fuse together. BUT at the same time you can't have the explosion heat the uranium too much or else the two pieces of uranium will melt and splatter everywhere like a drop of water hitting a table top.

The problems involved in making such a device are just far too complex for terrorists to put together because terrorists function by NOT being centrally organized.

Now, lets talk about someone buying a device from the old USSR and sneaking it in the US. The problem with that is every port and airport has detectors that can detect the neutrons released by such a device (the neutron levels are not harmful to humans but are easily detected). It would be impossible to shield the device enough to block all of the neutrons while still keeping the shipment small enough to not draw attention.

Ok, so lets try sneaking it in through a remote location along the border. Sure, go ahead and try to do that. The smallest devices weigh about 80 pounds. This means that you will need several people working together and moving slowly to carry the thing about 100 miles or they will need to load it onto a vehicle. Either way they are very likely to be spotted.

The bottom line: I just don’t buy it.

JH

I'm not ascared of a little suitcase bomb firecracker.

When you get in to the megaton bombs, I'll run for the hills though.

greendawn

Is this for real, or alarmist propaganda to get more funds for the intelligence agencies and anti terrorist forces? No doubt Bin Laden would like to have such weapons but think about the backlash against the moslems world wide if they were ever used.

upside/down

If they have viable nukes...there is a good chance they'd use them on each other...

The "Muslim brotherhood" is a infighting prone bunch... for example... OBL hates the Saudi's... he'd love to nuke them.

Like Native Americans... the only thing that united some of them was hatred for "the white man"...before "the white man"...they fought like son of a guns...brutally.

People are people...and well...relatives are the worst.

Give them enough time...and they'll turn on each other.

u/d

proplog2

Here is something I posted on JWD in June of 2001

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/6844/1.ashx Come with me as we snoop on a secret meeting taking place at a
Steambath outside St.Petersburg -Russia.

Speakers:
Vladmir Putin President of Russia
Ivan Secret Bomber 1
Alexander Secret Bomber 2
Boris Secret Bomber 3

Putin: Welcome to our special meeting comrades.

Ivan: We thought you forgot about us.

Alexander: It's been tough staying out of sight.

Putin: Your loyalty has been appreciated- I would have never been
elected without your help. I hope you have been enjoying your
leisure. Unfortunately, I have one more job for you.

Boris: We figured as much. Do you have more buildings to blow up.

Putin: Kind of. Actually thousands of buildings all at once.

Ivan: That would be a nightmare. Where are we going to get that
much explosives?

Alexander: Do we even have a thousands structures worth blowing up
in Russia?

Boris: Are you still trying to keep the Chechen Terrorism scare
alive?

Putin: Yes in a way. But I want to convince the West - the
Americans - that they should give up their goal of dominating the
world. If they proceed down the Missile Defense path we will sink
into the background. We have to redirect their attention.

Alexander: And you're going to do this by bombing some buildings.

Putin: I have in mind a new "Manhattan Project". The first
Manhattan Project produced the atomic bomb. This Manhattan Project
will teach the Americans that they are vulnerable in a way that
they can't defend.

Ivan: Are you suggesting that we explode a nuclear bomb in New
York?

Putin: Of course. It will be a disaster that will dampen their
spirits. It will knock them off of their leadership pedestal.

Alexander: You will start a nuclear war! You can't be serious.

Putin: Who are the Americans going to punish? It will be
attributed to terrorists. No return address.

Ivan: It will kill millions of people...

Putin: Yes. But, they are necessary casualties of a very real war
we are fighting and losing. How many Russians have already died
because we are being sidelined as a world power?

Boris: So who will be blamed for this explosion?

Putin: All terrorists will be suspect. None will come forward to
claim responsibility. We will be outraged too. At the same time we
will call attention to our vigorous effort to combat Chechyan
terrorism. One of the added benefits is that we will be flooded
with help to get our economy going. That is the best protection to
keep our weapons out of the hands of terrorists.

Alexander: How can we get a bomb into the United States?

Putin: We took care of that years ago. Your job will be to place
it where it will do the most damage - probably not far from the
financial district.

Boris: Are you asking us to die?

Putin: No you won't be anywhere near the bomb when it goes off.
Here are the complete plans. Good Luck to You and all of Russia.

"When you catch sight of the disgusting thing causing desolation
standing where it shouldn't - flee - for then there will be a great
tribulation."

American Hiroshima?

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