1919? 1935? From where?

by gringojj 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Honesty

  1919? 1935? From where?

  Better not question
  Better not reason
  Cause the WatchTower freaks
  Will accuse you of treason
  Better not doubt
  Better not pout
  They'll call you weak
  For neglecting meat
  in due season
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  run dont walk

  that was good Honesty
• 

  Justin

  
  The 1919 and 1935 dates are not a result chronology - they are simply historical experiences which the organization has passed through similar to important dates in the history of an individual or a family, but they have been made to carry too much baggage. The year 1919 was the revitalization of the witness work after the Society's officers had been imprisoned and released in 1918 - but was it a second Pentecost, the birth of the holy nation, the renewing of the new covenant and other grandiose claims that have been made for that date? Again, 1935 was the year that they identified the "great crowd" as an earthly class to their satisfaction, but did they also have to subsequently claim that it marked the end of the general heavenly calling? (Of course, they can say that once one class began to be gathered, the selection of the earlier class had to be finished - but must they be so dogmatic about it?) So these dates, because they are viewed in retrospect, would not be of the same significance as some others except for the weight they are made to carry.

  The 1914 and 1918 dates, on the other hand, are dates which supposedly could be calculated in advance. The three and a half years between the fall of 1914 and spring of 1918 are supposed to parallel the three and a half years between the baptism of Jesus and his death and resurrection. On this basis the claim is made that, just as Jesus came to the Jerusalem temple in 33 C.E. (3-1/2 years after his baptism in 29 C.E.), so he came to cleanse the spiritual temple in 1918 (3-1/2 years after his presence in 1914). It is also claimed that he resurrected the dead anointed ones then, even as his own resurrection occurred in the parallel. Russell had earlier used this type of parallel for the dates 1874 and 1878, and the Society switched the parallel to the later dates of 1914 and 1918. But this sort of chronological approach doesn't fit the 1919 and 1935 dates.
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  AK - Jeff

  The

  "Great Crowd"—Who Are They?

  When announcement was made of arrangements for Jehovah’s Witnesses to hold a convention in Washington, D.C., from May 30 to June 3, 1935, The Watchtower said: "Heretofore not many Jonadabs have had the privilege of attending a convention, and the convention at Washington may be a real comfort and benefit to them." That certainly proved true.

  At that convention special attention was given to Revelation 7:9, 10, which reads: "After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: ‘Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.’" Who make up this great crowd, or "great multitude"?—KJ.

  For years, even down till 1935, they were not understood to be the same as the sheep in Jesus’ parable of the sheep and the goats. As already noted, it was thought that they were a secondary heavenly class—secondary because they had been negligent about obeying God.

  However, that view gave rise to persistent questions. Some of these were discussed early in 1935 at the noon meal at the Watch Tower Society’s headquarters. Some among those who expressed themselves at that time suggested that the great multitude was an earthly class. Grant Suiter, who later became a member of the Governing Body, recalled: "At one Bethel study, conducted by Brother T. J. Sullivan, I asked: ‘Since the great multitude gain everlasting life, do those who make up that group maintain integrity?’ There were many comments but no definitive answer." Well, on Friday, May 31, 1935, at the Washington, D.C., convention, a satisfying answer was given. Brother Suiter was sitting in the balcony looking down over the crowd, and how thrilled he was as the talk unfolded!

  Shortly after the convention, The Watchtower, in its issues of August 1 and 15, 1935, published what was stated in that talk. It pointed out that an important factor in properly understanding matters is appreciation of the fact that Jehovah’s chief purpose is not the salvation of men but the vindication of his own name (or, as we would now say, the vindication of his sovereignty). Thus Jehovah’s approval is upon those who maintain integrity to him; he does not reward those who agree to do his will but then bring reproach on his name by compromising with the Devil’s organization. This requirement of faithfulness applies to all who would have God’s approval.

  In harmony with this, The Watchtower said: "Revelation 7:15 really is the key to the identification of the great multitude. . . . This description in Revelation of the great multitude is that ‘they are before the throne of God, and publicly serve him’ . . . They see and understand and obey the words of Jesus, the Lamb of God, saying to them: ‘Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve’; which words apply to all creatures whom Jehovah approves." (Matt. 4:10) So, what the Bible says about the great multitude, or great crowd, could not be properly construed as providing a safety net for people who professed love for God but were indifferent about doing his will.

  Then, is the great crowd a heavenly class? The Watchtower showed that the language of the scripture did not point to such a conclusion. As to their location "before the throne," it showed that Matthew 25:31, 32 tells of all nations being gathered before the throne of Christ, yet those nations are on earth. The great crowd, however, are "standing" before the throne because they have the approval of the One on the throne.—Compare Jeremiah 35:19.

  But where could such a group be found—people "out of all nations," people who were no part of spiritual Israel (described earlier, in Revelation 7:4-8), people who exercised faith in the ransom (having figuratively washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb), people who hailed Christ as King (with palm branches in their hands, like the crowd that greeted Jesus as King when he entered Jerusalem), people who truly were presenting themselves before Jehovah’s throne to serve him? Was there such a group of people on earth?

  By fulfilling his own prophetic word, Jehovah himself provided the answer. Webster Roe, who was in attendance at the Washington convention, recalled that at a climactic point in his discourse, Brother Rutherford asked: "Will all those who have the hope of living forever on the earth please stand." According to Brother Roe, "over half of the audience stood." In agreement with this, The Watchtower of August 15, 1935, stated: "Now we see a company that exactly fits the description given in Revelation seven concerning the great multitude. During the past few years, and within the time when ‘this gospel of the kingdom is preached as a witness’, there have come forward great numbers (and they are still coming) who confess the Lord Jesus as their Savior and Jehovah as their God, whom they worship in spirit and in truth and joyfully serve. These are otherwise called ‘the Jonadabs’. These are being baptized in symbol, thus testifying that they . . . have taken their stand on the side of Jehovah and serve him and his King."

  At that time it was seen that the great crowd of Revelation 7:9, 10 are included among the "other sheep" to which Jesus referred (John 10:16); they are the ones that come to the aid of Christ’s "brothers" (Matt. 25:33-40); they are the people marked for survival because they are appalled at the disgusting things done in Christendom and shun these (Ezek. 9:4); they are like Jehonadab, who openly identified himself with Jehovah’s anointed servant in carrying out that one’s God-given commission (2 Ki. 10:15, 16). Jehovah’s Witnesses understand that these are loyal servants of God who will survive Armageddon with the prospect of living forever on an earth restored to the condition of Paradise.

  Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom 166-170

  Look at the comments in red - just how did Jehovah fulfill this? What arrogance, to assert here that by an announcment in the Watchtower and at a witness convention, Jehovah was showing them the fulfillment of this group?

  I agree with some who have stated that to hold the 144,000 to a literal number required that this was done - the time would soon pass in which the 144.000 would have been clearly passed. So Rutherford [Franz really] had to get this done. The timing was actually well done in that within just a few years Jw's were well in excess of 144K. It was needed in order to hold power over the growing religion IMHO. A 'ruling class' and a 'servant class' would be a permanent part of the control tactic from here on out.

  Just my opinion

  Jeff
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  Kenneson

  Jehovah's Witnesses would have us believe that it took some 1900 years before the term "other sheep" took on meaning. Yet their own Bible at John 10:16 states: "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold, those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." The very fact that Christ said, "And I HAVE other sheep" shows that He didn't anticipate to wait until 1935 to gather them. Rather, they were all God fearing Gentiles, with Paul as their apostle, who along with Jesus' Jewish followers (who also are described as sheep in the beginning of John 10) would become one fold (literally one flock, with one shepherd, Himself.) In no way is this speaking of a heavenly and an earthly class (that must wait until a 1935 convention to be identified). Jesus' flock of sheep was already beginning to be assembled at the very time Jesus spoke: starting with the House of Israel and then on to the Gentiles, creating one flock. Jesus clearly taught that all who serve Him will go to heaven. John 12:26 states: "If any man (not just 144,000) serve Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be." This Scripture, along with John 14:2 teach that all servants of Christ will one day be in heaven with their Savior.