We really need to set up a private website where UBM's can share their best tips.
Great video to open eyes, minds, and hearts
by Check_Your_Premises 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Check_Your_Premises
Yeah, I got a list of emails a while back to set up an email group.
A web site would be ideal. I am thinking of branching into web based programming and e-commerce. Maybe when I start doing that, I will set up a website for us. Invite only!
It has to be private though. I have so much I want to share with you all, but I just can't risk exposure right now. Some day I intend to show my wife just what the hell she put me through. Nah. That wouldn't be very Christian of me.
If you want to pm me your email address, I will try to put that list together soon. I am mostly talking with MJ, but we run out of ideas. He would probably like to get some new blood. If nothing else, I would have someone to prattle on to! He would probably like to pass me off on someone!
CYP
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Nathan Natas
Thanks for the tip. I ordered a copy, plus their DVD on the "Book of Abraham" It's gotta beat reruns...
I also would like to mention the 1981 theatrical-release motion picture "TICKET TO HEAVEN"
It is the story of a yound man who gets sucked into a Jesus cult after breaking up with his girlfriend, and his eventual exit of the cult. It also isn't specifically about Dubs, but it resonates very much with the Dub experieince.
The DVD is no longer in print, it seems, so it can only be had at a premium price, but you might be able to rent it. It might make an interesting feature movie for a week-long international apostafest. We could view it after "The Rocky Horror Picture Show."
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Billygoat
I tried to watch the 4minute trailer, but I always lose the sound around 1:43.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
CYP, I am curious; I have seen you mention the WCG in several other posts, and I have been wondering if you had a background there? It is also possible that you just found out about it through general research while learning 'apostate' info about the 'truth', but things you have said seem so specific and knowledgeable that I tend to think you were actually a part of it. I only ask because that is my background, and the WCG is so obscure to most people that they never even heard of it, especially since the organization self-destructed after the death of Herbert W Armstrong. (Feel free to not answer me if doing so could blow whatever cover you are keeping currently, I can totally understand and respect that.)
I joined this board because I was seeking answers for my relationship with my wife, who has been involved with JWs since about Nov 04. However, I found that its been a help to me in other ways as well...I had a pretty rough time of it while in the WCG and coming out of it as a teenager. I too have compared the JW stories I see here and my own experiences as a WCG'er, and they are often quite parallel. As far as I know there is no anti-WCG board analogous to this site, I have never sought one though either, so there may be. But coming here has helped me vent, and realize I was not alone with strange religious practices and experiences. In the past, I didn't really have the ability to do that, because it seemed so strange to even raise the subject with 'wordly' people, it just required too much background info to even get into how different my upbringing was. To be honest, I suppose it was easier on myself to simply bury all that past anyway, rather than confront it.
Parallels between WCG and JW that I have recognized:
No "normal Christian" holidays, and substitution of the organization's holidays to replace them. Neither group celebrates birthdays, either.
Policy of non-association with "worldly" people, including shunning of family who 'fall away' from the 'truth'.
Ridicule of all other religions as false faiths, ESPECIALLY Catholicism. The WCG referred to the Roman Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon.
Focus on faith/god/jehovah in health matters over science/doctors, even to the point of detrimental health on the part of the believer. Dunno about the JWs, but the WCG practiced 'laying on of hands", and members were encouraged to ask for this whenever their health was so bad they felt they needed it, rather than going to the doctor.
"Doomsday-ism" teachings, and prophecies and predictions of 'the end'. The WTS from what I have learned here last predicted the end in 1975. The WCG had a very similar thing in 1976, including many lawsuits from people who left when the world didn't end, then were angry because they sold or gave away their belonging, quit jobs, etc. Makes me wonder if Armstrong and whoever lead the WTS at the time were on the same page in any way? Wonder if they knew each other?
Doctrine of preaching to the world- JWs call it witnessing, and go door to door. The WCG did not make members go door to door, but I remember as a child going with my mother and asking to see grocery store managers, store owners, etc, asking to put cardboard display boxes in the same area where they had free apartment rental books and other flyer-type publications. If they gave permission, we would set up the boxes and fill them with the Plain Truth magazine, restocking the boxes every month or so. The WCG justified this policy by quoting passages in the bible which referred to being "fishers of men".
Subjugation of females, male dominance. The father is the head of the household, period, end of story. Both also keep women out of the clergy.
Abuse of children via the "spare the rod and spoil the child" philosophy.
Banning of movies, books etc, based on labeling them as "evil", "worldly" etc. I saw a post on here that mentioned Star Wars and spiritism, I remember as a child hearing a whole sermon based on how Star Wars was evil and actually an allegory of the Bible, good and evil, God vs the Devil, complete with Darth Vader as Satan, etc. (LOL, obviously the guy preaching had seen the movie)
Persecution complex: Both orgs teach that one can be expected to be persecuted just for being a member, because you now have 'the truth'. In both groups this can either become a self-fulfilling prophecy because the member expects it, or become an actual truth because the member changes so drastically that others resent it in some way. (Employees refusing to work certain hours or overtime due to religion requirements, thus causing friction with bosses, or spouses refusing to do certain things with their mates anymore thus causing friction at home.)
Pacifist doctrine: Turn the other cheek, don't fight back, no joining the military, etc. (Personally I have come to the conclusion that this is at least in part a way to keep people from gaining some backbone and confidence, if not totally-rather than being a matter of conscience/religion.) Though from being here I have learned that the JWs go a step further and also ban karate and the martial arts, I don't recall that the WCG did that, although it does go against the pacifistic teaching. The WCG also frowns upon competitive sports as the WTS does, although I remember as a kid being in the Youth Opportunities United group, and we had inter-church basketball games...a bit hypocritical there, I guess...think what they really meant was no sport with a worldly organization like school, etc. Armstrong used to talk about playing cards in his sermons, saying that hearts was his favorite game, and how it must have been approved by god because the object of the game is to GIVE all your cards away.
I'm sure there are many others, but I'm running out of steam here, and this post has become much longer than I intended anyway. It started out as a simple question to CYP.
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M.J.
WELCOME AATWT!!!
Join the party!
CYP sign him up!
Niether CYP or myself have been in the WCG. But we both have been somewhat researching parallel types of movements and sects, for the purpose of putting things in perspective for our wives, who are JWs. Their indoctrination promotes a certain worldview that they are completely unique, and that the uniqueness of their experience is a sure sign that they are the "one true organization". This, as you have attested, is not the case.
I found it interesting that the WCG is actually related to the JWs in that they share common roots in the movement of William Miller. CT Russell put together the foundation of WTS theology and chronology from what he learned through former Millerites (known as Adventists), with Zion's Watchtower getting its start through Russell's partnership with a press-owning-former-Millerite named Nelson Barbour. My understanding is that the WCG (Armstrong's beliefs) derived from the Church of God Seventh Day, which in turn derived from Millerites/Adventists.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your story and perspective. It's exciting to see someone with your perspective on the board.
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Check_Your_Premises
nope. NOt a wcg. I am genetically predisposed to despise authority of any kind. Plus I am an avid student of history, American in particular. The time I have spent studying and admiring the care the founders put in ensuring the blessings of liberty, and the constant fear of men seizing to much power probably inoculated me more then anything to the jw appeal.
When men ask for power, I always want to say no, and I become highly suspect.
The reason I know so much about wcg is because I have watched their dvd. I also have looked at rcg's website.
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Nathan Natas
I wanted to let you know that the two DVDs ("Called to be Free" and "The Book of Abraham") arrived in yesterday's mail and I watched them both last night - EXCELLENT programs, both of them.
I understand that both of these are the products of outreach ministries, but I would have loved to see Penn & Teller pop in every so often to say "See? It's BULLSHIT!"
The story of the Armstrong church is very moving. These people, (like many JWs) are sincere in their desire to worship, and the consequences of their church changing direction was fascinating to observe.
Of course, the linchpin in the WCOG theology was Herbert W. ARmstrong himself. He founded the religion, and he set himself up as head prophet, even going so far as to promise that the COULD NOT die until Christ returned... Well, guess what? He died, and nothing happened. The consequences of that "Big Nothing" (my term) were that several church leaders began re-examining what they had been taught, and a majority of the top leaders decided that they had been misled by their founder, H. W. A., and were consequently a cult. They then took action that had tremendous negative impact on their organization.
I would urge anyone with an interest in the sociological impact of cults to obtain and view both "Called to Be Free" and "The Book of Abraham". The second title discusses one of the "revelations" of Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS (Mormon) church, and what happened when the "lost" documents upon which "The Book of Abraham" had been based were discovered to be in the archives of a museum. Fascinating stuff!
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Check_Your_Premises
Nathan,
Thanks for updating this thread with your endorsement as well. We often spend so much time examining the wt paradigm in light of internal/external consistencies and external validation. That is helpful for many who have left, and it is useful for those who are awaking from their hazy dream to the reality of their captivity. But for those who still have a strong need to beleive in the wt paradigm it is useless to point out these inconsistencies and external invalidations.
However it is possible to examine OTHER paradigms. That is why videos like these are so important. These types of criticisms can penetrate the jw protective wall because it is criticizing another religion.
Anyone with anybody trapped in the tower needs to educate themselves about other cults. This story of the WCG and this video in particular should probably be on the "must have" list of anyone trying to help a loved one escape the tower.
The Watchtower must be destroyed!
CYP
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
I was checking RunningMan's profile so that I could find the rest of his atheist bible chapters that I had not yet read, and discovered he had already started a thread on the similarities of the WCG to the JWs, and accuses the WTS of plagiarism. Here is the thread (the link may not work, sometimes when I attempt to post links they come up as regular text, not sure why)