JUSTICE #17 - DFing by PHONE

by Amazing 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    JUSTICE #17 – DFing by PHONE

    The telephone can be so useful, yet in some ways so cold and impersonal. I wonder how the sister in the following account must have felt when she was DF'd by phone:

    Sister Y was someone I never met or even knew of. She had become a JW before I moved back into the congregation. I never saw her at meetings, in service, or even at any JW gatherings we had from time to time. Nevertheless, she became the center of a controversy – ‘the almighty so-called conscience of the congregation.

    Sisters A and B approached us to inform the Elders that they should be aware of a serious ‘concern’ that may be ‘stumbling’ the congregation. They said that because Sister Y had not been to meetings in a long time, that they tried making calls on her to encourage her, and maybe even study with her again to help her back to spiritual maturity. But sadly, they said, Sister Y never seem to be at home. Even when they saw her car in the driveway, still no one answered the door. So they felt worried that she might be avoiding them.

    Elders response: Myself and the PO said that we did not know Sister Y. I admitted never even hearing of her before, and I had been back in the congregation for two years. I did not recall any JC file or Publisher Record Card for Sister Y. The PO likewise admitted not knowing Sister Y, and had only heard her name mentioned once or twice. We said that likely nothing would happen because we really don’t know of any concern that we can establish. But we agreed that we would try to contact Sister Y during our next Shepherding visit.

    Sisters A and B discover something unusual: A couple of weeks later, before we could arrange for a Shepherding visit, Sisters A and B approached us again with additional ‘concerns’ that were most alarming. Just recently, they saw another car parked in the driveway, and feared the worst. What was that? It might be a man, a worldly man. Who knows what must be going on? Someone, they said, really needs to look into the matter and see what may be taking place. The “conscience” of many sisters is stricken because of this situation, and its effect on Jehovah’s name and organization.

    What to do?: We told Sisters A and B that we were unaware of how much this ‘concerned’ so many sisters and agreed to look into it soon. We had our Elders meeting and myself and the PO agreed to call on Sister Y to see what was up. But, as it was with the sisters who called, no one answered the door when we called by. So we went off to another Shepherding call.

    A few days later, the PO and I worked together in Field Service. After donut and coffee time we decided to make a few calls. We stopped by at Sister Y’s house and saw two cars in the driveway. We knocked on the door. We waited and knocked again. We heard some footsteps. The door barely cracked open about an inch, and I could hear the PO talking quietly to someone. It sounded like a woman’s voice. He asked if this was a good time to visit. The women said not really. He asked if we could call again later, and she was not sure if she would be around. He asked if everything was all right, to which she said things were fine. He asked if she had company right now, and she said yes. So, we left.

    A Phone Call: Later one evening, the PO and I got on the phone so we could both listen. He did not have a speaker phone, so we both had to hold our ears together to hear who answered. Sister Y answered, and the PO identified himself and me. She asked what was up. The PO mentioned that some were ‘concerned’ about her because she had not been to meetings or out in Service in many months. She agreed that she was not able to attend much. He asked if she thought that might change. She was not sure and unable to commit to anything specific. He asked if the car that we saw in her driveway was that of a boyfriend. She said yes. He then asked if things were as bad as they looked. She said they were. Hew asked if she would be willing to visit us at the Kingdom Hall for counseling and help. She said not right now. He asked when. She could not commit to any time in the future. He then said that since things are as bad as they look, and she cannot meet with us, then does she understand that we will have to disfellowship her. She said she understood and agreed that we must do what we feel we must do.

    The whole phone call was polite, calm voices, no tears or emotions, and very courteous by all parties. He told her that if she had change of heart to call us and we would be glad to meet with her to discuss reinstatement.

    The Announcement: Shortly thereafter, we announced at the Service Meeting that Sister Y was Disfellowshipped. Several in the congregation came up to me and asked who Sister Y was, for they too had never heard of her. I said that I could not discuss it because I was on the JC (of 2 Elders – Gawd!) Then Sister A and B approached with thankful appreciation for the Elders keeping the congregation clean and removing those who would stumble the brothers and sisters. I smiled and moved on ... feeling like this was really unnecessary.

    The Significance: Was Sister Y committing fornication? It sounded like it. Was she a ‘stumbling’ and ‘wicked’ influence negatively impacting the collective ‘conscience’ of the Congregation? How could she be when hardly anyone even knew of her? Was she bringing ‘reproach’ on Jehovah’s name and Organization? She had not association for years, so how could she in any sense cause in damage to the Watch Tower marketing image?

    I think about this kind of thing once in a while, and wonder what in the hell we thought we were doing? Yet, this type of ‘keeping the congregation clean’ mentality and the procedural style (though not often by phone) that is so common really smacks of insanity. What made us go along with this type of treatment? I suggest that it is pure fantasy, a fantasy that Jehovah’s Witnesses have been sold by the Watch Tower leaders, and a fantasy that someday reality will catch up to, and a fantasy that is already crumbling. - Amazing

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Amazing:

    I just wonder why these particular sisters were so nosy? how did they know the lady if everybody else in the congregation din't know who she was? I wonder why these sisters were not counseled for being busybodies and not minding their own business.

    ONE....

    bigboi

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Bigboi: I recall that one of the sisters who reported to us was the one who 'helped' Sister Y become a JW. So, her attempted visits and concerns were somewhat natural.

    You make a good point about counseling them about being busy-bodies. Yet, the original focus was to have the Elders shepherd Sister Y. So before that approach could produce any results, the next thing we knew, we were calling on Sister Y to find out what these sisters were talking about.

    More to your point, I recall anothee couple who I knew well. They were JWs about 2 or 3 years, then stopped going to meetings and started celebrating Christmas. Some JWs complained to the Elders, but were told that it was a long time since that couple had been to meetings, and so we saw no reason to take action. The couple was away from the coungregation a while longer than Sister Y, but they were obvious in there ex-JW activity.

    Consistency is not always a high mark for JW Elders. And that only adds to the already problematic policies and procedures issuing forth from the Watch Tower leaders. - Amazing

  • soylibre
    soylibre

    As usual.....more concerned with the fantasy than the reality....I'm sure Sister Y didn't really give a shit if she got df'd......Hell, Amazing, she'd probably thank you if the truth be known!

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Soy: I have no idea what she felt. She may have had mixed feelings, one being relieved to be out of the organization and the sisters trying to visit her, and the other feeling a sense of how unloving the JW system really can be. - Amazing

  • Richie
    Richie

    Dear Amazing...
    Let me ask you...are you an elder now??? Did this just happen???
    If you are an elder, then tell me honestly and truthfully: don't you see clearly how wrongly structured this religion is??? It cannot be branded as the only true religion...., it's so procedural and unloving and that's why I am so relieved to be away of all this constant struggling of conscience...
    How long can you hold on to a position of responsibility which is so dependant on doctrine!!

    Regards,
    Richie :*)

    You are the music as long as the music last...............

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    cults spy------------------------ cults suck

    the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Richie: No, I am not an Elder now. I started my association with the JWs in 1968. I was baptized in 1970. I served as a 'Servant' before the Elder arrangement. After the new arragement commenced, I then served as a MS and then an Elder. During most of my years as a JW, I helped 15 people into the organization, often AUX Pioneering, and otherwise had a high service average. I also was of the Anointed during most of that time. I walked away quietly in May 1992. I was forcibly Disassociated in July 1995 on the 25th anniversary date of my baptism. Altogether 1968-1995 I was known as a JW for 27 years.

    I do not agree with any Watch Tower teaching except one ... that is ... I do not believe in Hell Fire. All other major Watch Tower teachings and doctrines have been proven false, or on very shakey ground. Additionally, they are false prophets out for profits, uneducated and unqualified men who do more harm than good with their so-called judicial system, their literature is lacking in sound material, such as their family and children books, and their beliefs can and do get JWs killed. Several, if not most, members of the Governing Body do not believe some or all of what they teach JWs, thus making them criminals -- at least in a moral sense, if not in a civil sense.

    When I started my Justice Series I provided the "Foreword" that I no longer agree with these so-called Judicial Committees. At times, I did well in mitigating the problems. At other times I stood at a distance and could only watch as an Elder. At other times, I was part of the problem.

    My purpose in posting this series, whether it made me look bad or not, was to help many who have never been Elders to understand what an inane, ludricus, and idiotic system the Watch Tower religion is. It is to help those who are still healing to understand more of what happened to them, and why they are not crazy, but they are victims of a religious system that went out of control with the advent of Joseph F. Rutherford, and contiued on to this day. The only brief period of some sanity was when Ray Franz and a couple of other GB men served in the 1970s. Since that time, the relgion lost its opportunity to become something useful to people.

    If you wish, you may email me with additional questions at [email protected]. If you do email me, please say something about JWs in the subject line. For security purposes and the sake of time, I delete all email that I do not clearly recognize.

    Your post does make me wonder if I should post my story on this board so that when Newbies sign on they will know a little bit about me. I fear doing this because my mind is so filled with thousands of thoughts and concepts when I type, that I may tell a long boring story that no one wants to finish reading. It is not a boring story, but it is easy to turn it into one. For all my strengths as a writer, and minor published author, my use of 'too many words' is my main weakness. Thanks for your comments and questions. - Amazing

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Thanks very much for taking the time to post this, Amazing.

    I wonder how many of us who have had many years experience as elders, have come to the same conclusions? I suspect there are many thousands. It's been a hard road for many elders wrestling with their consciences as they sought to loyally uphold the Society's procedures on the one hand, yet being tortured with inner doubts about the 'rightness' of what they were doing.

    I liked Richie's expression "it's so procedural and unloving and that's why I am so relieved to be away of all this constant struggling of conscience..." Very apt.

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "You can know the law by heart, without knowing the heart of it"
    Philip Yancey, What's So Amazing About Grace?

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hello Amazing:

    You said:

    It is to help those who are still healing to understand more of what happened to them, and why they are not crazy, but they are victims of a religious system that went out of control with the advent of Joseph F. Rutherford, and contiued on to this day.
    I just want to assure you that for me, and I am sure for many others too from many of the replies you have received from your other Justice Series, you are accomplishing your goal as you stated above.

    When I read your first few accounts, I just sat with my jaw dropped in absolute disbelief that things could be so much worse than I had even known. When I expressed that to you, you assured me that the accounts you would be relating would shock me even more...and they did. But they have helped me to see the true picture of the WTS and the men who are running it.

    I appreciate hearing from someone who has first hand experience with these men that:

    Several, if not most, members of the Governing Body do not believe some or all of what they teach JWs, thus making them criminals -- at least in a moral sense, if not in a civil sense.
    You and other elders, COs and DOs here "in the know" offer your experiences and the knowledge you have uncovered of the deceit and misleading that has been going on in the borg for too long.

    That info you and others supply in your posts has helped me get past the guilt feelings that crop up every so often as a result of the indoctrinization the WTS is so good at.

    I'm sure every congregation has its share of the "busybodies" you described. I know I've seen them in action and wish sometimes now I would have had the gumption when I was associating, to ask them why, instead of telling everyone else about so-and-so's questionable actions, didn't they just put the Bible's councel in practice and go first to the one you see stumbling and try to help them yourself. Too many times I've seen people just go running to the elders first with their "observations" about someone.

    Thanks again Amazing for all you doing to help those of us who are "trying to find our sea legs" as it were.

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