New J.W. strategy? I need to vent !!!

by hubert 12 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hubert

  Some of you know I have a daughter and son-in-law that is involved with the j.w. cult.

  This is because of the influence brought about from my daughters aunt, who is a full blown (brainwashed) j.w. cult member, and her family, too.

  My daughter always loved her aunt, even though she was in the cult, which is fine with us. We really don't want it any other way. The problem is, even though we always were there for our daughter, too, this aunt was always there to "help her", when we weren't around, even to the point of finding her a better paying job working at the same job as her j.w. uncle's place of work.

  It was AFTER this all happened that she became involved with the j.w.'s, and I'm thinking that she got into it, OUT OF OBLIGATION for the j.w. aunt. She may have felt like she "OWED" it to her, because the j.w. aunt and uncle "Did so much for her and her husband".

  Now, our new dilema... My other daughter is hanging around with her aunt more, lately, spending evenings at her house, and today I found out that this daughter is "helping her aunt with some housework, and that the aunt is paying her to do this. So, Here we go again? I told my daughter to be careful that she doesn't get into a situation where she is OBLIGATED to do anything. I hate that this is happening, because I absolutely don't trust my sister-in-law, and her family. I know how sneaky she has been in the past, and I know she will try everything in her power to get my daughter into this cult, even though I don't have any proof of it, yet. I just don't know what to do about this, and don't want to start pushing my last daughter away from us, into the "arms" of the j.w.'s.

  So, any advice you can give me I would very much appreciate.

  Have any of you experienced this type of strategy in your past? ie: being obligated to go to Bible study or meetings because you owe them?

  Thanks.... Hubert
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  I think the first step is diagnosis. Your daughter's condition will dictate your approach.

  Question 1: Has she accepted the idea that this is a divinely appointed organization.

  If she has accepted that, she is for all intents and purposes a witness. You must treat her and approach her in that way. That is a discussion far to complex for the scope of this thread... maybe even this forum.

  If she has not, you must inoculate her to that idea. The best way to do that is produce items that damages the wt credibility... which isn't very hard.

  Why not ask her straight up, "On a scale from one to ten, how convinced are you that this is God' only, one true, organization?"

  Sorry if you already know the above... and I am very sorry if she has full blown JW-itis.

  And yes, the method of getting compliance out of people by offering them something is tried and true.

  There are 6 methods of influence used by compliance professionals identified by Robert Cialdini in his book Influence: The Principles of Persuasion.

  1. Social Proof - Other people are doing it, so it must be the right thing.

  2. Liking - I like them, so I will do what they want.

  3. Commitment and Consistency - I agreed to do that, so I must agree to do this to be consistent.

  4. Reciprocity - They did this for me, so now I feel obligated to comply.

  5. Authority - They appear to be authoritative, so I will do what they want.

  6. Scarcity - This opportunity is going away, so I better get it now!!!

  Actually the dubs use all of these in some ways. They use reciprocity in many ways, "free Bible study", "free publications", all these nice folks trying to do you favors and wanting to be your friend all of a sudden. The real sneaky part of the reciprocity rule is it allows the compliance professional to set the terms. They offer something, which is accepted, and then at a later time they make a request that is far beyond what was given. But the individual feels obligated, so they give in.

  Maybe present that idea itself in a neutral setting. Tell her how some salesperson offered you a free sample. Then later on they started making you feel guilty for not wanting to buy their product. Ask her what she thinks about that? Ask her what she thinks a person should do in that situation? Ask her if she thinks a person should feel obligated when someone gives us something to get us to agree to something else?
• 

  anewme

  Hubert, I believe I was "open" to the witnessess because my dad was divorcing his second wife.
  Our family was in turmoil. My own mother was dead. I was ignored and severely depressed from 17-18
  
  If only my father had taken the time to reason with me about this organization. Before he died he told me he really feels responsible that he did not do anything to stop me. I guess he thought I would grow out of it. But instead I got more and more enmeshed and entangled in it.
  
  Please take Check your Premises advice and read the book Influence: The Principles of Persuasion
  and sit down with your daughter and at least try to reason with her.
  Give her some defense mechanisms so she can fight off the subtle sticky web that her aunt is weaving around her mind and heart.
• 

  Buster

  
  One time my then-teenage daughter asked me if she could attend some local church group with some new friends. I told her 'fine with me, as long as we sit and I tell you what to expect, and we review what happened.' We had several good talks. As her association with them progressed she eventually decided to have nothing to do with them.

  Of course the effectiveness of any approach will depend on how indoctrinated she already is. But I sum it up this way: Education, education, education.

  Education: Study a set of 'We are the Only True Religion' sects/cults. They love bashing other groups. She may notice, perhaps later, that the JWs exhibit the same traits, claim the same things.

  Education: Read up on Logical Falacies. Witnesses use a variety of flawed logic to convince those that want to believe. Study things like circular logic, strawman, ad hominem, etc. Learning to spot those will help her see - if she wants to see.

  Education: Take her straight to the beliefs that their recruiting methods hold back. Show her what the JWs think she is not ready to see. Explain that all babies, with the exception of those belonging to JW mothers will be destroyed at Armageddon (that one seems to work pretty well with women). Take her to Quotes' web site and show her, in JW publications, the loony things she will be expected to believe - without reservation.

  Tough spot - good luck.
• 

  vitty

  You need to talk to her and maybe show her this site, Id try and discourage her meeting her aunt, I dont care if she is "family'" whats more important

  Im telling you now, she WILL have set her sites on your other daughter, she WILL feel it is her duty to do so.

  If someone had, got one child in this cult there is no way id let her have another one. And im someone who got reintroduced half my family into it, please dont let it happen take steps NOW !!!!
• 

  Ellie

  It sounds like you are in a difficult situation, especially if you don't want to cause arguements or upset anyone.

  I don't really know what to suggest except try having a talk with your daughter and show her this site.

  I do know what you mean though, about the way they do people good turns in order to put pressure on them to study, so be very careful.
• 

  hubert

  C...Y...P,--- Thanks for all the advice. She is not really interested in the j.w. cult (yet), but I don't want her to get so close to her aunt that she feels an obligationn to go to meetings. I don't think she is as gulible as her younger sister, but I don't want to take chances. I want to stay ahead of this problem, so I can counteract it as it comes. Your advice will certainly be very helpful. Thanks so much.

  Anewme, I certainly will take cyp's advice, and everyone else's, too, if I can use it. I plan to have a talk with her, to help her see what the "alteria motives" are.

  Buster... The problem here is, the children "won't ask" you if they can go to a Bible study, or a KH meeting, especially since these "children" are in their 30's. LOL !! But, It might work, if they were younger. I agree with you about "education" ie: research. My older daughter has done a lot of research through me, when I was going to have a "talk" with my j.w. daughter, and so she knows a lot of the lies and doctrinal flip-flops, but I still don't trust my sister-in-law, and I KNOW she will attempt to persuade my older daughter that everything I told her is lies. I don't plan to let up, on my quest to keep my last daughter, AND MY ONLY GRANDCHILD out of that cult!!!! I (we) will never surrender!!! (Winston Churchill)

  Vitty.... Abiout my older daughter.. She has seen this site already, but so far isn't too interested in what is in it. I showed her lots of stuff before, but I know that once the j.w.'s tell them not to listen to anything that anyone else says, it's all over, so to speak. However, I don't want it to come to that point. And yes, I don't plan to let them have my other daughter, and my granddaughter, too. No way. But, I want to do it right, that's why I am asking you people for advice. And, I'm getting lots of good stuff to work with, thanks to all of you.

  Ellie, I am planning to be careful, but it's not easy. I'll certainly try my best. One more thing...I know how deceitful my sister-in-law can be. When we found out (too late) that my younger daughter was getting involved with the j.w.'s, my sister-in-law said to my wife, (her sister), quote..."Don't worry ------ isn't "STRONG' enough to be a j.w."

  I knew what she was trying to do. She wanted me to "back off", so she could get her clutches into my daughter, but it didn't work. I tried even harder to get my daughter and her husband to start thinking again, but it was no use, The damage was already done.

  However this ends up, there is a difference here, with the two daughters. The one that is in has no children, but the one the j.w.'s plan to "indoctrinate" has our granddaughter, and I pledge to fight this tooth and nail, to keep our granddaughter out of this cult.

  Thanks for all the great advice and comments.

  Hubert
• 

  jaffacake

  If she's not interested, my advice is educate her. I have discussed these things with my kids (15 and 11) and I truly think they are immune. I wish you well.
• 

  talesin

  Hubert,

  I did not know your situation. I'm so sorry, you seem like such a lovely person.

  Good points from all, and CYP in particular!

  I had a couple thoughts,,,

  As you say she is not already inclined to the JW ways. Can you tell her you fear for her? Does she know the implications of what has happened with your other daughter?

  Perhaps you can tell her about discipline of children, lack of Xmas, b'days, etc.

  Also, can you fix her up with a job to replace the one w/ her aunt?

  tal
• 

  hubert

  Perhaps you can tell her about discipline of children, lack of Xmas, b'days, etc.
  

  Also, can you fix her up with a job to replace the one w/ her aunt?

  
  

  
  My older daughter, the one with our granddaughter, knows all about the j.w. thing. She used to help me look up and categorise my research, but I STILL DON'T TRUST MY SISTER-IN-LAW. I know what she is up to, so I am trying to stay one step ahead of her.

  By the way, Talesin, she is not the one that got a job thru my sister-in-law's husband, it was the younger one, who is already brainwashed into the j.w. cult. My older daughter is having some medical problems, though, and is starting to get involved with the church, but so far, it is the one we belong to. (Catholic). I'm just worried that she may be interested in what the j.w.'s have to offer.

  Thanks, Talesin.

  Thanks, jaff, I plan to talk to her about this situation, very soon.

  Hubert