Doubt Not-Fire Two......

by silentlambs 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    I am going to let J. R. Brown look this one up for himself,

    From day one of this issue being raised the Watchtower has maintained there is no problem with child molesters being shielded within the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The questions that beg to be answered are:

    1.If a child molester is convicted in a court of law will the brothers and sisters support the victim?

    2.Will a sex offender be disfellowshipped if he maintains innocence after being convicted by a court of law?

    3.If a molested victim no longer goes to meetings and the child molester has been convicted what will witnesses do at their sentencing hearing.

    4.Will Watchtower encourage elders and publishers to testify in behalf of a convicted pedophile?

    Please read the sentencing hearing of Paul Berry, a Jehovah’s Witness in good standing, and see if you can determine the answers to the above questions.

    This information is now posted on the website front page. There is over 40 pages which include 29 Jehovah's Witnesses begging the Judge to let Paul Berry go after he was already convicted. I ask you since when do 29 brothers and sisters go to court of their own initiative to try and get a convicted sex offender out of it? Do you think Watchtower might have coerced their testimony? Does what they have to say seem uncannily to have the same theme? You be the judge...

    shame wt shame

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    A friend who has had previous access to the testimony warns that you should be prepared for some very sickening information.

    Vomit bag alert, seriously.

    I needed tissues for my tears too. I've heard the same story over, and over, and over, only the names vary.

    Maximus

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    Poem from Paul Berry hearing:

    The screaming is getting louder--it's impossible to hear.

    It's clawing at my insides and stepping on my fear,

    Ripping out my brain and picking at my gut,

    laughing at my words and calling me a slut.

    It's been stepping on me for hours and saying I'm insane,

    kicking in my face and constantly wishing me pain.

    Lost in the confusion, I've given up all fight.

    Along with my pride, he's taken all of my might.

    I ask him for pity: "Kill me, or set me free.

    with a monstrous laugh, he says, "I don't know, we'll see."

  • zev
    zev

    i read half of it tonight.

    i cant read anymore, tonight. maybe tommorow.

    all i could think while reading it.....was oh my god!

    -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
    __
    Zev
    The greatest consistancy of the WTBTS is their INconsistancy.

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Greetings silentlambs:

    When I first started hearing that there was an abuse problem in the congregations, I found that so hard to deal with, and this was after I stopped attending meetings.

    It just seemed to be the worst possible thing to hear about. Yet everytime I turn around, the facts just keep getting worse and worse.

    I've heard about some cases to be made public that just made my stomach turn and later when dwelling on it just caused me to break down and ask WHY. How the WTS can defend these monsters is beyond my comprehension. And I'm referring not to alleged abuses. These are proven facts that could only lead to a conviction.

    Now, as if hearing details and facts of proven abuses is not bad enough, to hear that after a conviction, the molester is being supported by other JWs makes me absolutely sick.

    1.If a child molester is convicted in a court of law will the brothers and sisters support the victim?

    What is wrong with these people? I am so completely dumbfounded beyond words. Even if he is repentant, he needs to prove himself and pay his dues before he should get words of praise and pats on the back. Is the victim getting the same kind of support or more?

    2.Will a sex offender be disfellowshipped if he maintains innocence after being convicted by a court of law?

    I would think that the justice system has improved enough in these matters to be able to establish guilt without a doubt.

    3.If a molested victim no longer goes to meetings and the child molester has been convicted what will witnesses do at their sentencing hearing.

    True Christians principles would show love and concern and support for the victim, but of course I guess the operative word here is "true".

    4.Will Watchtower encourage elders and publishers to testify in behalf of a convicted pedophile

    How they can expect to lessen the "reproach on God's name" by supporting the "convicted" pedophile is beyond stupidity. The world will be watching and the reproach and shame will be piled high by their supporting the molester and turning their back on the victim.

    Yes I can hear the "pep rallys" now drumming up support for the molester under the guise of the "recommendation" that true loyal Witnesses will want to show do all they can to keep the reproach from God's name by showing how much they "love" their brothers and sisters and blah blah blah.

    How sickening...utterly sickening.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Judge says "wake up and smell the odd looking coffee creamer, you religious idiots" in slightly more Politically Correct words.

    Quote:

    I’ll do the sentence.

    BALIFF: All rise.

    (Recess)

    THE COURT: Please be seated. Well, needless to say, since the trial I've

    thought about the sentencing as much as counsel on both sides have certainly

    thought about it. And I note there are some issues --appealable issues on the

    part of the Defendant in the case. I've made my decisions and did my best to

    follow the law as I saw it. And I excluded evidence that I didn't believe was

    relevant, and I excluded evidence that both sides offered that I didn't believe

    was relevant. And on appeal the Supreme Court will decide whether or not I did

    so appropriately, and well they should. I do wanna say I appreciate the courage

    it takes to come to court when a person is found guilty and speak in favor of

    that person. And I also appreciate the courage it takes to come to court and

    speak about things that I know are so difficult for family members. I think

    Attorney Sisti talked about the years of --his years of experience--and he has

    many: he's one of the finest defense attorneys in --probably in New England.

    But in my years of experience—I would like to say this to the people here who

    speak for the defendant: Be careful with your kids.

    I can guarantee you that

    within your group there, there are a number of people who have been sexually

    assaulted. When I pick juries to sit on trials, it's not unusual for me to

    have from half a dozen or more jurors come forward and say, No, I can't ~ sit

    on this case: I was sexually assaulted; my daughter was sexually assaulted.

    What you see when you visit someone like the defendant, or when you're in

    church, is not everything, believe me. I've had trials where defendants who

    were Catholic priests were found guilty, where victims have come forward

    following the trial, finally letting people know that, yes, they too were a

    victim; when someone had the courage to come forward and finally say something.

    It's --I think as Attorney Harding said: It's the secrecy. Many people pull it

    off, and it -- are never sentenced for anything, and have probably --and I

    can't say in numbers, but I know that many people just feel, as victims, that

    they just don't wanna face the system, and the stress of reliving things that

    were so difficult for them when they were helpless with nowhere to turn. But

    believe me, do not carelessly say, "I would leave my children with" anyone. And

    the jury found the defendant guilty of these charges. And I was reading some

    of the indictments earlier today, and I thought about Holly--Holly B.,

    as it's written in the indictments. And it's Holly B.the woman that I see, but

    it was Holly B. the child that was in the indictment. And she was being

    emotionally and physically and sexually abused when she was between the ages

    of, I guess, five and ten. And there was nowhere she could go. She -- her

    parents couldn't help her; the defendant wasn't going to help her; the

    church didn't help her; and the state didn't help her. And at that time in her

    life, she could see no help on the horizon. I think as Attorney Brown said, she

    didn't think she'd live to be sixteen years old. But inside of that child was a

    hero just waiting; and now years later--twenty-one years old, tattooed--the

    poet-warrior in a sense comes to rescue the child. I'm not going to call the

    defendant a monster. No one that comes into the courtroom is a monster; we’re

    all human beings and we make terrible mistakes. I will say this, that there is

    something terribly wrong with anyone who would perpetrate this number of

    offenses over that number of years on a helpless child. And I think Attorney

    Sisti said that he had tried murder cases where the state's recommendation--this recommendation in this case would be much longer than a murder case. Well,

    a murder case is a different game. It's one incident, frequently done in the

    heat of the moment. It is not an incident that is planned and then carried out

    systematically, secretly, at the expense of a child who cannot help herself

    because her community will not help her. And so I'm going to give the State—

    the State's recommendation of a sentence. I think the defendant's acts deserve

    that. I think it is important that the defendant be punished for these acts.

    And I'd point out that perhaps if somebody had spoken years ago, if somebody

    had inquired, instead of relying perhaps on Jehovah--and I'm not talking

    against anybody's religion; I'm saying I’ve seen this happen in any number

    of different congregations-—maybe it would have been a shorter sentence, and a

    lot less cruel for that child, then.

    So, the clerk will now, I know, read the

    sentences.

  • Jeremy Bravo
    Jeremy Bravo

    That was one of the most despicable things I have ever read. What disturbed me most were Sisti's closing arguments. I can only imagine a snakey slimy defence attorney when I think of him....

    I sincerely hope that those who spoke up for the defendant listen to the judge and open their eyes to reality.

    So Sad. I pray for the victims of this and any other case or situation like this.

    Jer.

    P.S. - I added this quote from one of the audience JW's in my edit:

    Well, Jehovah is the God of truth, and even in this --this very troublesome circumstance, Paul Berry is still wor-- still worshipping the God of truth; yet his wife and children are not. That says something extraordinary to me, to my heart and to my mind. I am thoroughly convinced that Paul is innocent. He's my friend. I don't --I-'m not nervous with him around my children at all--I never was and I never will be. Same thing with all of Jehovah's witnesses: we all worship the God of truth. And we would not be here to promote a lie in any way. We would not be here to cover over a lie that Paul would be hiding.

    TO DEFEND THIS MAN AND DEGRADE THE VICTIMS OF THIS CASE BECAUSE THE VICTIMS ARE NO LONGER JW'S IS CULT MIND CONTROL AT ITS WORST. I AM APPALLED....

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    And dilettante JW apologists have the CRUST to come here and ask ex-JWs if we are monomaniacal! Geez if this sort of travesty DOESN'T focus and sharpen our resolve to turn the Tower's slimy foundation over and expose the vermin hiding behind it's walls,we would be less than human!

    Each and every one of those sick cultists is guilty of abusing the victims all over again. And they have the smegging CRUST to talk about OUR lack of morals!

    I keep thinking 'Mommie now you are unshockable, you've seen the worst that cult can dish out' and then POW! They manage to sock me in the solar plexus one more time, and I am again amazed that they can still shock me!

    Always always it's the BABIES that eat the most shit in their cruel hippo hierarchy.

    Defending a convicted perv...how low CAN they sink before they drown in their own sewage?

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Hi, Bill.

    Got back to the Board yesterday and had a chance to visit your website and read the sentencing hearing transcript. Incredible, just incredible!!!

    Like the others above, I am sickened that Sisti would attack Holly's credibility and that so many of the 'friends' showed up to speak for a CONVICTED child molester. And the judge was NOT swayed by their support!!! Some of them had not even shown up for the trial, yet were there BLINDLY supporting this monster without even knowing the details of the accusations against him. The judge was there, though, and so were the 12 men and women on the jury. And they saw fit to condemn him. And the judge saw fit to make the sentences on various counts NOT concurrent but consecutive. Says a LOT to my mind. And, what? SIX of the jurors showed for the sentencing hearing? to know how it all came out. That also is quite extraordinary, I think. (I was recently at a sentencing hearing for a senseless shooting murder where the judge received a FOOT-high stack of letters from friends and family affected by the murder of a wonderful young man, and yet only ONE juror came back to see how it all turned out.)

    The testimony of the 'friends' reminded me of how the neighbors of the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer or other perpetrators of heinous crimes so often say, "But s/he was such a NICE person..."

    But Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't. And neither is Paul Berry. And neither are the elders who protected Brother Berry, and counseled Sister Berry
    according to Watchtower policy.

    I noted in another thread that the supposition was that the WT Society would try to lay the blame at the elders' feet, making them out to be incompetent. Please note that the suit actually says (I'm paraphrasing here) that the WTS is named because the local elders did precisely what they were supposed to in accordance with directives from the Governing Body (believed to be spokesperson[s] for Jehovah God himself).

    The elders were fools to blindly follow, but the blame lies at the feet of the GB, as Maximus pointed out elsewhere.

    Thank you, Bill, for updating the site to keep pace with these new developments. I had no idea you had this in store for us, too!
    Kudos!

    outnfree

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Hi Bill,

    Well I came back from my vacation in a big park where there was no TV, Radio or telephone.

    I read over this document this morning between 5:30 to 6:30. A number of statutory violations along with other negligence etc. I hope you and others have fed these lawyers every document you have. If you or others need advice on how to testify, please feel free to call.

    I just can't imagine what these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others have been through this and the ones that still are going through this.

    But the lawsuit does seem pretty good. The statute violation for failing to notify is a real kick in the head. I also like the idea of going after them in many different ways. I wonder how many states have this mandatory lawsuit idea.

    In other threads I have noted a different policy is now out by the WTS by way of press release. But my question to you is .... is there press release the "official policy"? In other words have they prepared a letter to the Body of Elders explaining the change?

    This will be a hard one to get around for the local congregation and the main section of the organization. They are going to have to prove that they were "dumb" and did not have an official policy etc. This is where you, the others and oh yes the publishing companies own documents are going to be come into the picture.

    By the time this is done (which will be in about 2 years) I suspect the printing presses may be for sale.

    God help them if the word of this lawsuit spreads, say maybe via a major news organization.

    hawk

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