A Comparison Of Translations

by Honesty 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    Do you know why "other" is in the NWT

    It is in brackets, like explanatory editorial comments usually are. But in this case the editorializing is done with a sectarian agenda, and the naive JW likely doesn't even realize that the brackets mean "it's not really there but we're putting the word "other" there because it HAS to mean that according to our theology." And I'll give it to you that other Bibles were/are written by people with their own biases, but the NWT's reputation as a sectarian bible is really without equal and I think the word "other" in brackets in the cited scripture is rightfully scorned by "Christendom".

    Do other religions that teach as do JWs that the comma belongs after "today"

    In all other Bibles that I know of, the comma comes before the word "today", and from what I have read on the subject, that is the honest place for it given what is known about the Greek. The words "truly I say to you" or "truly I tell you" were used quite often by Jesus, and never with the word "today" at the end of it, so the natural conclusion is that it goes with the second phrase in the sentence, unless you're Fred Franz of course.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider


    Cygnus: First of all, the site you referred to, had links to JW-sites and forums on it. It is clearly a website run by a JW, or a JW-sympathiser.

    JW/NWT apologists will say they are restorations to the original meanings and best ways to translate difficult passages

    "Translate difficult passages"? Yes, difficult to JW-doctrine, yes, because the original texts contradict JW-doctrine all over the place! You see, no passage is in itself a "difficult passage". It is only difficult when you try to place it in an already established doctrine. Lets take the Trinity-debate as an example: The rest of christianity has no problem with the seemingly contradictory verses in the Bible. Some places, Christ seems to claim that he is God/a part of God. In other places, he seems to claim that they are separate (no examples, you know which verses I`m referring to). But although this was "difficult" and "problematic" to the early (and later) theologians, instead of trying to change anything, they developed a doctrine that would (seemingly) solve the problem. And in "restoring the original meanings", when dealing with damaged scrolls, you will not be able to do this without basing it on some sort of doctrine. Serious Bible scholars and theologians are aware of this problem, but the WTS are not! They see no problem in putting the "Jehvovah"-word into the NT, although no originals have been found containing this name! This is a step that no serious researcher or theologian would dare to do! - simply because it has very strong theological implications!

    And one more thing: The changes the WTS has done, are no small changes! Actually, all the changes they have done, have serious theological implications! - This is exemplified by every example given so far in this thread, every word-change, every moving of commas, everything. And the strange thing is, that in other places, where the original text isn`t damaging to JW-doctrine, they have made almost no changes at all! Isn`t that strange?!

    Also: If the WTS were to be right, and the NWT was a more accurate translation, this would mean that almost 2000 years of Bible scholars, theologians and greek-and-hebrew-experts, have been mentally retarded! The changes in the NWT are, as I said, no small changes. If they were "accurate restorations" (although I can`t for the life of me see how you can restore something when there are no originals with even fragments pointing to the "restoration" being needed/valid), I`m quite sure some serious researchers would have picked up on it long ago. In fact, if the JWs were right, I find it surprising that Christian doctrine could go wrong in the first place. But then again, of course it didn`t go wrong, it simply based the doctrine on the texts, instead of doing it the other way around, like the JWs have done. The WTS` bible translation and theories can best be compared to the "revisionism" of neo-nazis (in fact, I believe this is the perfect analogy). They insist on rewriting history, based on some tiny piece of "evidence" they rip completely out of context. And then build a whole doctrine/theology on it.

    Revelations:

    22:18 I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

  • kool aid man
    kool aid man

    What a great subject! Keep up the research. A few years ago Mr. Kool aid man and I were visiting a friend when we noticed she had a Bible with 8 different translations. That prompted us to get one for ourselves. It was quite an eye-opener! Since then we have studied the N.W.T. from cover to cover and found out what a biased and twisted book it really is. All of your observations are correct. The Watchtower organization had to come up with their own translation to promulgate their own agenda, which most of us now know is done under mind control. Remember back when you first became a Witness, whether or not you were born into this religion or not,one of the first steps that are taken is to get you to give up your Bible and exchange it for the New World Translation. This "slight of hand trick" is done under the quise of telling you that it is the "superior" translation. Sadly enough most of us fell for this. But it is good to see so many who are now out from under the "spell of the Watchtower'" and thinking for yourselves. Notice, first of all, that you will not find the word 'BIBLE' in this book except for the first few pages in the beginning where it uses the words Watchtower BIBLE and Tract Society, as well as on page 5 where it says 'NEW WORLD BIBLE TRANSLATION COMMITTEE. tHIS IS NOT THE HOLY BIBLE as recognized by world Biblical scholars, it is an instruction manual to support the authoritarian rule of the Watchtower Organization!

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    sorry dan, i didn't get much past "original texts" in what you posted 'cause there aren't any. NWT translators and revisers have done a lot of scholarly work to produce a pretty decent, if wooden, translation. IMO. I'd say more but my hands are killing me today and it's very difficult to type. Maybe later I'll revisit the thread.

  • trevor
    trevor

    THE WITNESSES’ OWN BIBLE

    One of the Society's most enduring books is their translation of the Bible. Most members believe that this was translated from the original text in an attempt to provide a more accurate Bible.

    All members use this Bible almost exclusively. Most Witnesses say they will use any translation, but in reality, for a member to sit through a meeting with a Bible other than the Society’s would be seen as a sign of rebellion. It is unthinkable for a speaker to use a different translation for the duration of a lecture. Occasionally quotes from other Bibles are used if the wording suits the particular point the speaker wishes to make.

    For any serious debate, the Society's New World Translation (NWT) is always used. To attempt to use any other translation would lead to counselling being given, as it is seen as a failure to follow the Society's admonition. Why do Jehovah's Witnesses place such importance on their own Bible?

    On the whole, the Witnesses Bible is a fairly reasonable modern translation. Unfortunately though, some of the main teachings of the Bible have been subtly altered to fit in with their beliefs by the alteration or addition of key words. All other Bibles word verses differently but give the same inference. They lead to the same unanimous understanding the writer was trying to convey. The Society’s Bible is the odd man out.

    Most of these differences are a result of the way Witnesses view Jesus. To them Jesus is an angel, a Son of God, part of creation. A relationship with Jehovah God is essential to gain life. This is only obtainable by joining their organization. They state:

    “But because the increasing flock of Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses proclaim his name (Jehovah) everywhere as the name to call upon for salvation through Jesus Christ, more and more people are seeking the life giving association with these Witnesses.” (The Nations shall know that I am Jehovah – Page 333 – brackets added)

    They do not accept as stated in the Bible that:

    “This Jesus is the stone rejected by the builders which has become the keystone – and you the builders. There is no salvation in anyone else at all, for there is no other name granted to men, by which we may receive salvation.” (Acts 4:11,12 – NE)

    Witnesses totally reject the teaching of the Trinity as set out in the Nicene Creed in 325 A.D. In order to dilute the impact that Jesus has, many Bible texts have been altered. There are far too many incidents of this to list them all. Just a few are shown here to illustrate the way in which this has been done.

    Speaking of Jesus - “…and bestowed on him the name over every name.” (Philippians 2:9 NE)

    “…and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.” (Philippians 2:9 – NWT)

    ….

    “He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over all created things.” (Colossians 1:15 – NE)

    “ He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15 - NWT)

    In the following text the word “other” had been added three times:

    “The whole universe has been created through him and for him. And he exists before everything, and all things are held together in him.” (Colossians 1:16,17 - NE)

    “All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist.”(Colossians 1:16,17 – NWT)

    The NWT has added the word “ other,” to alter the meaning of the text. In subsequent printings, brackets have been put around the added words. This is of little help, particularly when the text is read aloud at “meetings.” The word “other” which it is claimed is there to clarify the scripture has no place being there, as an interlinear Bible will show. Here are a few more translations of the same scripture.

    “He is the likeness of the unseen God, born first, before all creation – for it was by him that all things were created.” (Moffatt)

    “He was born before creation began.” (J B Philips)

    “Begotten before all creation.” (Barclays New Translation)

    “The firstborn before all creation.” (Berkley Version)

    The same result is achieved in the following texts by using the words “by means of:”

    “What I mean is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.” (Corinthians 5:19 - NE)

    “Namely that God was by means of Christ reconciling the world to himself.” (2 Corinthians 5:19 – NWT)

    ….

    “All that came to be was alive with his life and that life was the light of men.” (John 1:4 – NE)

    “By means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.” (John 1:4 – NWT)

    Who is the Word?

    One of the most debated verses in the Witnesses Bible is John 1:1, where Jesus is referred to in the Witnesses Bible as “a god:”

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was towards the God, and God was the Word” (John 1:1 – Kingdom Interlinear, a Watchtower publication)

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” (John 1:1 – King James)

    “When all things began, the Word already was. The Word dwelt with God, and what God was, the Word was.” (John 1:1 - NE)

    “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the word was a god.”(John 1:1 – NWT)

    The following quotes are taken from the comments of Greek scholars:

    A shocking mistranslation …obsolete and incorrect …it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 “the Word was a god.” (Dr. J.R. Mantey)

    “A frightful mistranslation … if the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheist’s.” (Dr Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton)

    “This anarthrous (used without the article) construction does not mean what the indefinite ‘a’ means in English. It is monstrous to translate the phrase “the Word was a god.” (Dr. Samuel J. Mikolaski of Switzerland)

    “The Jehovah's Witness people evidence an abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets of Greek grammar in their mistranslation of John 1:1.” (Dr. Paul L. Kaufman of Oregon)

    “I have never heard of, any Greek scholar who would agree to the interpretation of this verse insisted upon by the Jehovah's Witnesses … I have never encountered one of them who had any knowledge of the Greek language.” (Dr. James L. Boyer of Indiana)

    “The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New Testament translation. John 1:1 is translated “…the Word was a god.” A translation which is grammatically impossible … it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.” (Dr. William Barclay, Glasgow University)

    “The predicate (God) stands emphatically first as in IV: 24. It is necessarily without the article … No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which simply affirms the true deity of the word … in the third clause ‘the Word’ is declared to be ‘God’ and so included in the deity of the Godhead.” (Dr. B.F. Westcott)

    “So numerous and clear are the arguments and testimonies of scriptures in favour of the true deity of Christ, that I can hardly imagine how, on the rules of fair interpretation, this doctrine can by any man be called into doubt. Especially the passage, John 1:1-3 is so clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of either commentators or critics, can it be snatched out of the hands of defenders of truth.” (Dr. J.J. Gerisbach)

    The Name Over Every Name

    In keeping with the Watchtower Society’s belief that Jehovah is the name to call on for salvation, they have inserted this name at every opportunity. They claim that all Bibles should bear this name as frequently, but other translators have tried to hide the name. They claim that they alone are upholding the divine name.

    On closer examination a different picture emerges. The foreword of their Bible explains that the divine name appears many times in the Hebrew Scriptures, but fails to appear in the Greek text. It has been replaced with “Kyri,os” meaning Lord and “The.os” meaning God. They claim they have been authorised to restore the divine name.

    If we accept this explanation, though other scholars disagree with this assumption, we must ask how the Society knows where to replace, for example, the word Lord with Jehovah? They say they do this by always using the name Jehovah when the Greek scripture appears to be a quotation from a Hebrew scripture where the divine name was used. This at first seems reasonable but they have been overzealous and not stuck to this rule.

    The original translators were aware that “The Lord” throughout the New Testament referred to Jesus, the exception being where the term “The Lord God” was used. In many instances where the context of the chapter being read makes it clear beyond question that “The Lord” is a reference to Jesus, the Watchtower Society have substituted the word Jehovah. This has made it possible to produce a Bible, which shifts the emphasis away from Jesus as Lord and places the name Jehovah in this position. From the many instances of this I have selected just a few to show how this has been done:

    “ If on your lips is the confession, ‘Jesus is Lord’ and in your heart the faith that God raised him from the dead, then you will find salvation. …Scripture says ‘Everyone who had faith in him will be saved from shame’ - everyone: there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, because the Lord is Lord of all, and is rich enough for the need of all who invoke him. For everyone, as it says again - Everyone who invokes the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:9-13 – NE)

    “For if you publicly declare that ‘Word in your own mouth,’ that ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved…For the scripture says: “ None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” (Romans 10:9-13 – NWT)

    ….

    “If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. Whether therefore we live or die, we belong to the Lord. This is why Christ died and came to life again, to establish his Lordship over dead and living.” (Romans 14:8,9 – NE)

    “…for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah. For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living.” (Romans 14:8,9 – NWT)

    ….

    “My judge is the Lord. So pass no premature judgment; wait until the Lord comes.” (1 Corinthians 4:4,5 – NE)

    “…he that examines me is Jehovah. Hence we do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes.” (1 Corinthians 4:4,5 – NWT)

    In the verse below the name “Jehovah” is used again. Throughout this chapter the Apostle Paul is talking of the Lord’s evening meal. He quotes the words of Jesus and refers to him as Lord Jesus. In the preceding eight verses Jesus is referred to as Lord five times. Why is the Lord rendered as Jehovah in verse 32? Reading any other Bible the whole chapter makes sense and the idea of adding the divine name is deliberately misleading.

    “However when we are judged we are disciplined by Jehovah.” (1 Corinthians 11:32 – NWT

    To the Israelites, which included Jews, the Lord was Jehovah. They were still looking to him for salvation through the law covenant. Paul was trying to show them that the Lord was now addressed by the name Jesus. This was The Sacred Secret. Until then Israelites believed that they could gain salvation by calling on Jehovah. The Christian belief was that now both Jews and Greeks, in fact “everyone” who calls on the name of Jesus could be saved. The Witnesses have stumbled on this. They say they recognize Jesus as Lord, but where the word Lord appears in the Bible, wherever possible they change it for the name Jehovah. This was the mistake the Jews were making at the very time. Talking of Israel’s lack of faith in Jesus, Paul went on to say:

    “They stumbled over the ‘stumbling stone’ mentioned in scripture: here I am laying in Zion a stumbling stone a rock to trip them up; but he who has faith in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:32,33 – NE)

    The Witnesses have stumbled on this. The Witnesses believe that Jesus is the rock mass but fail to realize that they are partially rejecting him. Paul says that it is faith in Jesus’ name that is the requirement for Christians. The Witnesses say works of faith in Jehovah’s name are needed. It is this issue that separates the Jehovah’s Witnesses from all other Christian sects. It is their claim that this further proves that they alone are the only true Christian movement on earth today. The following scripture, though obviously not written with Witnesses in mind, does sum up their position.

    “Brothers, my deepest desire and my prayer to God is for their salvation. To their zeal for God I can testify; but it is an ill-informed zeal. For they ignore God’s way of righteousness, and try to set up their own, and therefore they have not submitted themselves to God’s righteousness. For Christ ends the law and brings righteousness for everyone who has faith.” (Romans 10: 1-3 - NE)

    The Witnesses have been led to believe that belonging to a Society, which claims to be Israel restored - a new nation, is the way to righteousness, that calling on the name of Jehovah, just as the original nation did, is the way to salvation. They can show this in their Bible. Can they show it in any other bible?

    The following quotes show how other alterations have been made to rob Jesus of his Divinity:

    “For it is in Christ that the complete being of the godhead dwells embodied, and in him you have been brought to completion.” (Colossians 2:9,10 – NE)

    “…because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.” (Colossians 2:9,10 - NWT)

    ….

    “God answered, ‘I am; that is who I AM. Tell them I AM has sent you to them’” (Exodus 3:14 - NE)

    “At this God said to Moses “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE” (Exodus 3:14 – NWT)

    ….

    “Jesus said, ‘In very truth I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM.’” (John 8:58 – NE)

    “Jesus said to them, ‘Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.’” (John 8:58 – NWT)

    In Exodus, I AM has been replaced with I SHALL PROVE TO BE, and in John with I HAVE BEEN. Jesus is quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures, and an interlinear Bible will show that Jesus used the Greek ‘EGO EIMI.’ This is present tense and is always translated as I AM. According to Greek scholars there is no exception. For Witnesses to accept that Jesus has always been would mean that other Christians are correct to believe he is not part of creation.

    To fully grasp the import of the alterations in these texts, it is necessary to read the complete texts in your own Bible and compare them to the New World Translation.

    Prove These Things for Yourselves

    Jehovah's Witnesses are told by their Society that their Bible is the most accurate translation in the world. The members accept this as fact. They dismiss out of hand any suggestion that their Bible had been altered to support their own beliefs. The search for truth is not aided by such treatment of Scripture. Before anyone can decide whether or not they believe Christian theology, it is necessary for them to read an accurate rendering of the Bible-writers intended meaning.

    These few examples show that a seeker of truth will come to a different conclusion by reading the Witnesses Bible. To the Witnesses this is further proof that they alone have the only accurate Bible. They claim that, though other Bibles give an idea of what is required of Christians, only their Bible will fully convey the right understanding.

    Many terms used in the organization which are said to be Bible-based, are only found in their own translation. These “theocratic terms” appear strange to readers of other translations.

    You may choose to believe that the Watchtower Society is correct to render the verses the way they do and that all other Bibles are wrong! What is important is that the conclusions you come to are based on your own independent study. The information in this chapter is intended to encourage you to question, rather than just accept as Gospel the statements the Witness at your door reads to you from their own Bible.

    (Taken from the Book Opening the Door to Jehovah's Witnesses - byTrevor Willis) Click my profile for free download

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    : The word “other” which it is claimed is there to clarify the scripture has no place being there, as an interlinear Bible will show

    {shakes head} That's just a pathetic statement, Going from memory and brevity because of bad hands, the greek construction is similar to one found in Luke where Jesus speaks of "the fig tree, and all the [other] trees." the NWT is justified in adding "other" in brackets. again, IN MY OPINION.

    Edited to add: interlinears are for the purpose of aiding further study, not to be used as proofs

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    Ok, Cygnus, so you are in disagreement with Dr. J.R. Mantey, Dr Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton, Dr. Samuel J. Mikolaski of Switzerland, Dr. Paul L. Kaufman of Oregon , Dr. James L. Boyer of Indiana , Dr. William Barclay, Glasgow University, Dr. B.F. Westcott and Dr. J.J. Gerisbach.

    I can`t possibly understand how anyone could ever call the NWT a "pretty decent translation"!

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    {shakes head} That's just a pathetic statement, Going from memory and brevity because of bad hands, the greek construction is similar to one found in Luke where Jesus speaks of "the fig tree, and all the [other] trees." the NWT is justified in adding "other" in brackets. again, IN MY OPINION.

    Actually, there is pretty obvious syntactic difference between Colossians and the Luke text, which I explained in a message to this board in fall of last year. I'll try to dig through the archives to find it.

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    I was waiting for Leolaia to come and enlighten us on if [other] should or should not be thier. lol Im not sure because im not a scholor on the greek languages and I know shes very intelligent at this kind of stuff.

    "the fig tree, and all the [other] trees." the NWT is justified in adding "other" in brackets. again, IN MY OPINION.

    Yes maybe in the above instance they were justified but not when it comes to altering the complete meaning of a scripture. If thats justified to bend scripture to better fit a religions doctrine, then im baffled. Im just saying that fig trees and God are two completely different factors, and the importance of God far outweighs a fig tree. Thus in essence I don't buy a simple shrug off that because of another example in how they modified a scripture slightly to better its flow, that they also are justified in altering the meaning of a scripture dealing with Christ to make it better flow with their doctrine. To me that equates to circular reasoning, which is biased in itself.

    Ticker

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    As for their translation as a whole, I guess its not bad and they did what they could with what talents they had. The thing I don't appreciate is that its biased in certain areas, especially with wording meaning witness jargon, certain scriptures that don't fit right with their doctrine meaning they reword to gloss it over or they change wording, and the way it downplays the importance of Christ by their adding the name Jehovah to the New Testament. It just doesn't feel as honest of a translation and I feel their are better translations out thier.

    Ticker

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