It cannot be denied

by logansrun 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • katiekitten
    katiekitten
    If you wish to have just a surface understanding of people's actions then by all means, don't think about underlying causes.

    I dont wish to, its just that in life there is generally no time to. Apart from the people that you love, and are willing to spend time on.

    Also, nobody bothers to examine the underlying circumstances of why I act in particular ways. Its only notorious criminals who are documentary worthy that get that priviledge. And, personally, they are exactly the people who I dont think deserve it.

  • sonnyboy
    sonnyboy
    What else makes you you besides your genes and the enviornment you experience and interact with? What other element is there? Tell me.

    How about individual thought patterns? Imagination? Choices?

    You seem to be under the impression that everything about who we are is programmed by our environment and DNA. I agree that these things are major factors, but I don't believe that they fully control who we become. We do have a say in it as cognitive individuals.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    sonnyboy,

    How about individual thought patterns? Imagination? Choices?

    All of which are formulated in the brain which is dependent on your genes and shaped by your enviornment.

    B.

  • sonnyboy
    sonnyboy
    All of which are formulated in the brain which is dependent on your genes and shaped by your enviornment.

    Not necessarily.

    You claim in this thread that if we had the identical DNA and environmental stimuli as a murder/rapist that we'd become murderers/rapists. Let's explore this ideology...

    Say I had an identical twin and we were raised with identical stimuli. Now, let me think of something totally off the wall that I've never thought of before: I'm going to take off my clothes, paint myself blue, and hope down the middle of the street on one foot singing God Bless America. I commence to do so, and I get arrested for indescent exposure and disturbing the peace.

    Now, because I randomly chose to take off my clothes, paint myself blue, and hope down the middle of the street on one foot singing God Bless America and got arrested, my identical twin raised under identical stimuli would think to do the same thing and get arrested as well?

    Highly unlikely. I created this scenario at random through my imagination and consciously acted on it.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    sonny,

    You claim in this thread that if we had the identical DNA and environmental stimuli as a murder/rapist that we'd become murderers/rapists. Let's explore this ideology...

    Say I had an identical twin and we were raised with identical stimuli. Now, let me think of something totally off the wall that I've never thought of before: I'm going to take off my clothes, paint myself blue, and hope down the middle of the street on one foot singing God Bless America. I commence to do so, and I get arrested for indescent exposure and disturbing the peace.

    Now, because I randomly chose to take off my clothes, paint myself blue, and hope down the middle of the street on one foot singing God Bless America and got arrested, my identical twin raised under identical stimuli would think to do the same thing and get arrested as well?

    Highly unlikely. I created this scenario at random through my imagination and consciously acted on it.

    If you had an identical twin raised in an identical universe they would have come up with the same thought and acted on it. Identical means identical. Identical genes. Identical enviornment. Identical brain. Identical thoughts. Identical behavior. Period. This is not hard to understand.

    And you do not "randomly" think up anything. What you subjectively believe is random is actually the consequence of a very complex matrix of stimuli and neurological events. (Of course, someone could say that at the quantum level there is a randomness that occurs. Two things: One, there is no evidence that events at the quantum level have macro consequences on our thoughts. At least that hasn't been proven. Two, if there is a quantum randomness that in no way gives you free will. It only means that there are causal elements helping to produce brain states which are beyond your control)

    I hate to bow out of a discussion, but I have other things I have to attend to. Sonnyboy, I highly recommend you do some reading on the brain from a reputible scientist. You seem to not have the greatest understanding of how DNA and envionrment translate into brain states. Please don't take that as a put down. It's only a recommendation.

    B.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    I created this scenario at random through my imagination and consciously acted on it.

    I'd like to examine that, if I may...

  • sonnyboy
    sonnyboy
    If you had an identical twin raised in an identical universe they would have come up with the same thought and acted on it. Identical means identical. Identical genes. Identical enviornment. Identical brain. Identical thoughts. Identical behavior. Period. This is not hard to understand.

    Oh, so this whole thread was about the possibility of there being an identical universe with an identical us who is doing everything that we're doing now (the identical me is typing this message in another dimension), therefore I would have to murder when he does because we're doing everything simultaneously without making a conscious or random choice?

    Ok, it all makes sense now...

    I'm off for the day myself.

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