The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories - new - The Long and the Short of It (page 3)

Leolaia

actually, island dwarfism has been known to scientists for a long time. elephants shrink, and rats grow large.

Not to mention Homo floresiensis, which may be a case of this...

stevenyc

classist,

Steve, it didn't say he was 13 ft., it said his bed was.

I don't know if you take the bible as literal, so my comment wasn't to you in perticular. I was just stating the obvious. It should not matter to anyone that he could have been 13 foot. If its metaphore, it describes a powerful adversary. If you believe the bible is literal, nothing written can surprise you.

steve

the_classicist

I don't know if you take the bible as literal, so my comment wasn't to you in perticular. I was just stating the obvious. It should not matter to anyone that he could have been 13 foot. If its metaphore, it describes a powerful adversary. If you believe the bible is literal, nothing written can surprise you.

Some parts are literal, some are not, and there are a lot of exaggerations (especially in Maccabees, but that's probably due to the Greek literary history influence in inflating the numbers of one's enemy).

Not to mention Homo floresiensis, which may be a case of this...

There's an old saying: perite, my dear.

stevenyc

classicist

Some parts are literal, some are not, and there are a lot of exaggerations

So, how can you tell what's real and what's not. This is my issue with the bible. Especially with the old testement.

steve

the_classicist

So, how can you tell what's real and what's not. This is my issue with the bible. Especially with the old testement.

Ok, let's give a list: Genesis 1-11: allegory. Rest of Genesis-2 Esdras and 1st and 2nd Maccabees are historical. Esther, Job, Tobit, and Judith are historical novels. The prophets are books of... prophecy. Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiates, Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, and Ecclesiasticus are literary works.

stevenyc

Sorry if I'm labouring the point, but, how would it fit with the book of Joshua - mythical accounts of an historical events?

steve.

PS Sorry if I'm hijacking a little here.

Leolaia

What I'm saying is that "giant" is a relative word, though you may not accept that. Some people are generally smaller than others, this is genetic (possibly, though we don't know conclusively), dietary, and there are other factors. Now, it is possible that these Nephilim had average heights of 6-7 feet, while the others had an average of around 5 feet.

1 Samuel 17:4-5 describes Goliath of Gath (compare 2 Samuel 21:15-21 concerning the Philistine shock troopers who were "descendents of Rapha", including a Goliath of Gath; parallel tradition or another Goliath?) as standing 6 cubits + 1 span tall (~ 9-10 feet) and wearing a breastplate alone weighing about 122 pounds. In ancient Greek armor, breastplates usually weighed in at an average of 30-40 pounds. The tallest living human stands 7 feet 9 inches and the tallest human on record stood 8 feet 11 inches.

the_classicist

Sorry if I'm labouring the point, but, how would it fit with the book of Joshua - mythical accounts of an historical events?

Just b/c the sun stands still in our perception does not mean that it does so physically; the most recent sun "miracle" I can think of was at Fatima in 1917 (http://www.portcult.com/FAT.12.NEWSPAPER.2.htm; no one has discounted the fact that people have seen the sun do stuff at Fatima as far as I know, but usually skeptics call it a mass hallucination).

stevenyc

Just b/c the sun stands still in our perception does not mean that it does so physically

With regard to that account referenced, it happens all time. As someone who films for a living I can demonstrate and if you want I'll write up how it happens in another topic.

To get back to this one, I still can't see what the fuss about the account of a 13 foot man is. The bible is full of absolute rubbish, in the literal sense. I really don't mean to offend, but, it is a book of miracles and supernatural. If you read the stones and structures of that age regarding conquests you will see the same. The underlying message, whether it be history or lesson, may be based on truth for the time, but the text is ancient allegory.

steve

the_classicist

1 Samuel 17:4-5 describes Goliath of Gath (compare 2 Samuel 21:15-21 concerning the Philistine shock troopers who were "descendents of Rapha", including a Goliath of Gath; parallel tradition or another Goliath?) as standing 6 cubits + 1 span tall (~ 9-10 feet) and wearing a breastplate alone weighing about 122 pounds. In ancient Greek armor, breastplates usually weighed in at an average of 30-40 pounds. The tallest living human stands 7 feet 9 inches and the tallest human on record stood 8 feet 11 inches.

122 lbs doesn't seem to be too much (of course, the breastplate is scale armour, which is woven together, I believe, and it could have been layered). The fact that he was killed by a stone (well, probably by the fall) shows how his centre of gravity was unsustainable. Regular-sized Roman soldiers are said to have carried a minimum of 93 lbs on them (including food).

To get back to this one, I still can't see what the fuss about the account of a 13 foot man is. The bible is full of absolute rubbish, in the literal sense. I really don't mean to offend, but, ;it is a book of ;miracles and supernatural. ;If you read the stones and structures of that age regarding conquests you will see the same. The underlying message, whether it be history or lesson, may be based on ;truth for the time, but the text is ancient allegory.

Again, doesn't say he was 13 feet (but I know you know that ; we are dealing with a form of polemics). I think the miraculous things in the OT are as beliveable as the resurrection. Even if you think it to be myth, most myth have some kind of history in it (I like how Schleimann used the Iliad to find Troy).

With regard to that account referenced, it happens all time. As someone who films for a living I can demonstrate and if you want I'll write up how it happens in another topic.

Yes, that would be interesting.

The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories - new - The Long and the Short of It

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