Urgent scan request! Imperial Bible Dictionary!

by ithinkisee 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  ithinkisee

  My wife was appalled by the misquote in the Reasoning book under CROSS - where the Society quotes the Imperial Bible Dictionary.

  More information regarding this misquote is located here:
  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7831/cross.html

  She is not convinced though - because she does not have an actual scan of the actual page to look at.

  (Yes, I have already tried contacting the author of that website - to no avail.)

  Does ANYONE have this book? Or a scan of this page?:

  Imperial Bible Dictionary
  Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

  Thanks in advance for any help in this!

  -ithinkisee
• 

  ithinkisee

  I did find it at the NY Publick Library:

  http://catnyp.nypl.org/search~/t?SEARCH=imperial+bible+dictionary

  Anyone wanna be an apostahero and go get a scan of the page in question?

  I know there are MANY on this list that would love to have a scan of such a blatant Watchtower misquote.

  Thanks,

  -ithinkisee
• 

  funkyderek

  It's available at abebooks.com for as little as $28

  http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?y=10&tn=imperial+bible+dictionary&x=21

  (You may need to copy and paste the link)
• 

  hubert

  I would love to get my hands on a copy of this book, also. In fact, you may find it in www.abebooks.com

  While you show your wife the scan, if you get one, for backup, maybe you could also show her the Bible quote in the NWT which is John 20:25. (plural "nails") in Jesus' hands, and show her on page 170 of the "Knowledge" book how the picture of Jesus on a "stake" only show one "nail" through the wrist. Doesn't add up, does it. Hope this helps a little.

  Hubert
• 

  ithinkisee

  Thanks Hubert. Yes, I have showed her the "nails" scripture. She looked it up on the WT CD-ROM and had some questions from readers, but the QFRs diverted from the real issue (surprise surprise ...). They made it an issue of whether it was hands or wrists .... not cross or stake. Then they ended with a statement to the effect of "these are minor details and you are really nitpicking if you are getting this technical".

  -ithinkisee
• 

  bagpuss

  I managed to find a scan of the page on the web. I have just tried to go back to the site and its no longer available. However i have the page saved in my favourites and if anyone can explain how to make it available i'll try my best,bearing in mind I,m not too good with computers so I'd need easy instructions!
• 

  shadow

  The section referred to in the Reasoning book is shown below:
  
  *** rs p. 89 par. 1 Cross ***
  
  The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·ros´. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·ros´], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.
  
  It seems to me that the point being made is that stauros originally meant a stake or upright pole. The Imperial Bible Dictionary does agree with that. IMHO the reasoning here is faulty but I do not see much of a problem with the way the citation is used.
• 

  funkyderek

  IMHO the reasoning here is faulty but I do not see much of a problem with the way the citation is used.

  Well, here's what the book in question actually said:

  "The Greek word for cross, (stauros), properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling (fencing in) a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans, the crux (from which the word cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a traverse piece of wood was commonly added ... about the period of the Gospel Age, crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood."

  Clearly, this does not support the Watchtower position at all, nor in reading the original article, could anyone believe that it did. This means that the writers of the Reasoning book deliberately omitted important parts of the text in order to mislead people.
• 

  doinmypart

  Here is a scan from the Imperial Bible Dictionary.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/file/8F57A8D3-8CAC-4D2E-9745-90FE4E3BDC01.ashx
• 

  doinmypart

  The link to the scan in the message above didn't post large enough. Here is a link to the page where I found the scans, look near the bottom of the page.

  http://members.tripod.com/sosoutreach/phone/crossx.html