"Our Father Which Art In Heaven" (page 3)

jwfacts

There are a couple of reasons witnesses do not like this prayer. One already mentioned is that we are to pray to our 'father' and not 'Jehovah'. Jesus never once is recorded as using the word Jehovah. There has not been found a single fragment of NT where the word Jehovah appears. Jesus always said Lord or Father.

Aother reason is that it says 'thy will be done on earth AS IN HEAVEN'. This implies Gods will was already done in heaven in Jesus day. It did not take another 1900 years for this will to take place in heaven.

The prayer raises curly questions for Witness doctrine.

Honesty

In the case of prayer, it seems the JWs "use" it as a talisman, to be waved around frequently.

Have to give those JW's some credit, though. They have managed to disrespect the name 'Jehovah' with their false doctrines and prophecies.

Hellrider

jwfacts:

Aother reason is that it says 'thy will be done on earth AS IN HEAVEN'. This implies Gods will was already done in heaven in Jesus day. It did not take another 1900 years for this will to take place in heaven.

Aha!!! I hadn`t thought of that! Wow, that`s an eyeopener!

And as someone already mentioned: I too have felt almost embarassed at times, that I didn`t know this prayer. I don`t go to church to often, only at baptisms, funerals, weddings and once at christmas time. But I was very embarassed at my sons baptism, when we were supposed to say that prayer, and I didn`t even know the words. Felt like a damn heathen, lol.

defd

There are a couple of reasons witnesses do not like this prayer.

It is nit that we do not LIKE IT. We just do not recite it. We pray to the father in heaven(Our Father who arts in heaven) We pray for Gods name to be cleared of all reproach and for the sanctification of it(hallowed be thy name) We pray for Gods Kingdom to come because we know that is the only help for mankind, His Kingdom in the hands of Jesus.( thy kingdom come thy will be done )..... And so on for the rest of the prayer. I know in my daily prayers I pray for and thank God for the food I have for me and my kids. I pray for God to help me with the things that tempt me, so I do not fall to them........I just do not say it ritually. Jesus told his disciples right before he taught them the model prayer, not to be saying the SAMETHINGS, over and over. So by saying that pray over and over again, saying the samethings, is directly against Jesus instruction about prayer.

Kenneson

Defd,

So when does using the name Jehovah over and over again become repetitious? Is 10 times more effective than once?

Terry

Assuming for a moment that there is an all knowing, all seeing, benevolent creator of the universe who loves us and hears our prayers, I simply cannot believe that it is the order of those words--or the unique (or not so unique) arrangement that is important.

The ASSUMING is the part that gets you into it in the first place.

When my kids were little and it was time to feed them I didn't wait for them to badger me because their little tummy was bothering them with hunger. They didn't need to implore me with many words or any rituals. This idea of a Sky God who treats us like beggars and fools is repugnant to the "Father" concept and actually destroys any rational credibility

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You may as well dance the Hokey-Pokey as to talk to God, pray to him, beg him, implore him, importune him, seek him in prayer. It is a jolly waste of time.

When you say to somebody "I'll pray for you" try substituting either of these phrases next time.

1.Hey, I'm sorry to hear about your problems I'll be dancing the Hokey-Pokey for you.

Or, with even more stark honesty:

2.Hey, my heart goes out to you in your time of need. I'll be doing absolutely nothing for you myself; but, I'll pretend there is a supernatural invisible friend of mine who'll look after you.

See how rude that looks? It is because, essentially, we are doing nothing at all when we pray; BUT, we convince ourselves we are doing a Big Deal.

Empty self-deception, alas!

Terry

Most of the arguments against it (especially JW ones, and those typified by Terry's statements) show a blatant dearth of knowledge of how it can be used in spiritual work.

And, naturally you possess this knowledge about which I (and others) have a dearth!

The phrase: SPIRITUAL WORK is rather gossamer, isn't it?

Work consists of getting something done and not just pretending to get it done. Odd putting a word which is hollow of content next to a word that actually means something. Hmmm, or is that the point?

Make an empty concept take on the lustre of actuality by pairing it with a word full of content; clever, my lad, clever.

Terry

Yes, that idea has occured to me too. And imo, if the son of god (seen from a christian viewpoint) didn`t even dare using gods name, it is heresy when the JWs shove the Jehovah-name into the NT in their NWT, all over the place.

Well, yes; every huckster has to have something to holler about in the marketplace. Instead of "Get yer red hots right here...RED HOTS....get yer RED HOTS...." they use a badly fumbled mispronunciation of an ancient tribal diety instead.

Nobody ever went broke understimating the intelligence of the average person.

T.

Terry

How many kids do you know who address their father by his name? None. You address your neighbor's father by his name, though, don't you? Why? Because it is a formality with those with whom you have but an acquaintance.

The use of the pseudo-name JEHOVAH smacks of arrogance on the part of JW's. They think themselves peers of the Most High!

Even the Jews who thought themselves the chosen of god trembled in respect at the idea of using God's formal name for fear of dishonoring it even accidentially. But no....JW's throw "Jehovah" around like it was the name of their pet dog whom they can fetch to do their mundane bidding on demand.

JW's are arrogant and willfull self-important snobs who are stupefyingly ignorant of what they themselves are and what their empty philosophy represents to rational listeners.

Terry

upside/down

I pray for God to help me with the things that tempt me, so I do not fall to them........

You're being here in defiance of "God's" Faithful and Discreet Slave direct counsel...is proof that your "God" not only has not answered your prayers to avoid temptation...but that you are in fact a GLUTTON for association with apostates.

You're like an alkeeeholic that sits in the bar with his drinking buddies praying to "God" that He won't allow you to drink... pathetic.

You really puzzle me.

u/d(of the sh*t or get off the pot class)

"Our Father Which Art In Heaven"

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