How I am dealing with "The Bible says you have to go to all the meetings!!"

by Check_Your_Premises 30 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Ingenuous

  CYP, nice summary.

  Going to the Bible itself is oh-so-important. My Dad accused me of adding words to a scripture when we were discussing a point of JW doctrine. He was basing his accusation on what the literature had told him the scripture said. I found a Bible and - Well, lookey here! - it said exactly what I'd told him it did. (I admit, I dumped the 'good girl' routine for the first time in my life and really enjoyed that little dig )

  M.J. also has a good point, maybe something for you to consider later: a discussion about where in the Bible it says we have to obey the rules and regulations of a particular organization to gain God's approval and salvation? Again, it's a matter of finding actual scriptures in context. When you read scriptures like Galatians 3 - talking about obeying man-made "law" as well as Mosaic "Law" - it becomes clear that the actual scriptures and their context are damaging to much JW dogma.
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  AlanF

  CYP:

  I agree with other posters that you're not going to get very far with this. Not because your arguments aren't good -- they are! But because the indoctrination of the cult causes extreme braindeadness in the cult followers.

  So to really get anywhere with your family, you need a completely different approach. It's liable to be a long road, just as it took several years for the indoctrination to fully take hold. Where you go down this road depends on your overall outlook on religion. Are you a Christian or not? Etc. etc. etc.

  I think that the best approach to deal with JW indoctrination is to gradually raise questions that you know they'll have a hard time answering, in particular, questions that suggest or prove that WTS writers have lied about some subject. Once an honest cultist comes to see that there are serious problems of honesty with his religious teachers, that affects everything he believes. I'm sure you already know the resources available to you via this board that can help you.

  AlanF
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  Check_Your_Premises

  AlanF,

  I agree with other posters that you're not going to get very far with this.

  Oh, don't worry I am going much farther than this. Only a few people here know how far I am truly going. This is only a mere skirmish in a much bigger war.

  This is simple defense. I have laid a great deal of groundwork with my wife, because she is the prime objective. As she goes, the kids go. However, I have left an enemy in my rear area; the childrens silly brainwashing about other churches and the meetings. My wife doesn't give me a lot of greif about the meetings. It is the kids. The reason this needs to be dealt with is because I am trying to make our regular bible meetings positive and thought provoking. We simply read the Bible and I ask questions. The problem is they keep spouting wt garbage. In particular they clearly think I am some kind of sad, confused, misguided man for not going to all the meetings. I am going to soon institute some rules to our studies, namely if you say it is in the bible, it better be in the bible.

  I enlisted my wife's help by pointing out to her that I am the head, and it doesn't make much sense for me to be in that role with the kids not respecting anything I say. I pointed out that nobody seems to mind how I provide and protect them. My opinion is just great when it comes to that stuff. No matter how bad someone considers me to be spiritually, nobody seems to think I can't be trusted and therefore offer to take over those jobs. For some reason no dubs offer to pay my mortgage since I am to stupid or prideful or immoral.

  So if I am trustworthy enough to take care of those duties, I should be trustworthy enough to be the spiritual lead of my home. She agreed and has since spoken to them. I don't care if anyone agrees with anything I say, I just don't think it should be dismissed outright because I am not a witness. Keep in mind, my wife still possesses large portions of her mind.

  So now I am simply giving them a biblical explanation of why I don't think a person has to go to all the meetings, it sure isn't in the Bible.

  Don't worry. This isn't the only card I am playing!
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  out of the box

  I like what Gill wrote;

  So you could ask your kids with your wife present, 'What do you think might happen to you if you didn't go to the meetings and out in service any more?'

  by the way, ask your wife too, you are the head of the household, they HAVE to listen to you!

  out of the box
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  jgnat

  I do find the JW's hold on to their meetings like a talisman. They really do believe that regular attendance assures supernatural protection. There are plenty of urban legends of disaster befalling brothers or sisters that skipped a meeting. The latest, written up in the WT, were about a JW family who got wiped out in the Tsunami. The JW's who attended the KH that day were spared.

  Also, missing a single meeting can introduce doubts. Constant reinforcement is required to maintain that feeling that what they are doing is the 'truth'.
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  95stormfront

  by the way, ask your wife too, you are the head of the household, they HAVE to listen to you!

  The most irritating part of this is that if you continue to ask the difficult questions, they tend to clam up and not even broach the subjects with you, especially if they've been blown out of the water a couple of times. They'll often retreat to the "we b persecuted" mode.
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  ithinkisee

  I can vouch for CYP that he is getting ready for a full-court press.

  I would say, that what has seemed to be working in my case, is pitting the JWs against the Bible.

  The idea wasn't my own. I got the idea from a Dr. Walter Martin MP3 floating around where he mentions that the JWs "Achilles Heel" is that they feel they place FULL TRUST in the BIBLE and that the BIBLE is INFALLIBLE. That is your opening.

  After first showing her the lies by the Society in black and white, in their own writings - which was essentially like catching them with their pants down around their ankles - I then went to scripture and showed her where the Society has added to scripture and just plaine LIED about so many things in the Bible.

  I made good inroads with the WT Lies, it essentially got rid of one leg of the chair. Once I was able to show their hypocrisy in Scripture as well, the 2nd leg was gone and the chair toppled.

  I know this won't work for everyone, because for many spouses the social aspect is all they need to stay JWs.

  But if you have a spouse that is almost arrogant in their insistence that JWs are 100% biblical and are 100% sure the JWs facts check out, pitting the Bible against JWs might be a good route to go.

  Keep in mind, my wife still possesses large portions of her mind.

  That's good to hear. I am with you in spirit man ... -ithinkisee
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  BluesBrother

  My wife doesn't give me a lot of greif about the meetings. It is the kids.

  Typical strategy in dealing with an 'unbelieving husband' . The wife feels that she cannot give him too hard a time, but encourages the children to speak up, in the hope that daddy will recognize words from the mouths of "babes and sucklings "

  it is a hard situation and I admire the way that you are handling it. As you say, your wife is the key.. Keep up the good work.
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  jgnat

  Yeah, pulling the "head of household" card builds resentment. It is true they HAVE to, but an irritated JW is a pain to live with. It's not like the WTS teaches the principles behind such commands, or how to do so constructively.

  I missed the part where you are doing this as a bible study. I'd expand the study a bit to incorporate critical thinking. Before you open the bible, give everyone a blank sheet of paper and pencil for their own thoughts. Have them list the things they gain from meeting with other Christians. Have them list also some of the things Christians do when they get together.

  THEN list examples of various Christian meetings in the bible, and read a few. What did they do there? How did they benefit? How often did they meet? Is there any indication of how long the meetings went? Were they always formal gatherings, or did Christians get together to eat and pray informally as well? Do Christians today do the same things? How could we improve things when we do get together?

  Acts 12:1-17. The first Christians, about 120, stayed together and prayed constantly until the day they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

  Matthew 9:10-11, Mark 14:3. Often the teacher was invited over for a meal and many came to hear what he had to say. Remember, this was pre-printing-press days.

  Mark 14:12-16 They followed the jewish customs of celebratory days, like Passover.

  Mark 1:35 There are also examples of private devotionals, away from all distraction.

  With all this, you can simply ask in which ways the WT meetings are following early Christian pattern, and which way they are not. Critical thinking skills.
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  garybuss

  It's possible to be regular AND infrequent. Once a year is "regular". Once a decade is "regular" if you do it every decade.
  I hated having kids who were Witnesses. Monday he'd shun me. Tuesday he'd ask to borrow my tractor to mow the lot for the new hall. Wednesday he'd hand me his doctor bills. Thursday he'd shun me.