Why 'defining evil' is fruitless

by Shining One 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jgnat

  Absolutely, Daunt:

  Anything that can possibily put christianity in bad light has to be apologized in order for it to look good. It would be a lot less confrontation if many (can't be wrong) christians would just the possibility that they can be wrong.

  The problem with worshipping the Bible as a god is that the defender is forever condemned to explain away it's inconsistencies. This creates twisted doctrine. Following the bible slavishly, ignoring the evidence in front of us, can cause much harm.

  • I've seen abusers use the bible to force their victims to "forgive" them and remain in an abusive situation.
  • I've seen evangelicals bully a deathbed conversion in order to "save" the poor soul waiting to die.
  • I've seen end-time believers scour the news in hopes of finding further evidence that our world is dying.

  Yes, Christians have much to apologize for. I'm sorry.
• 

  jgnat

  "I saw in the whole Christian world a licence of fighting at which even barbarous nations might blush. Wars were begun on trifling pretexts or none at all and carried on without any reference of law, divine or human." - Hugo Grotius, Christian apologist.
• 

  Pistoff

  Shi**ing One, you are off track again.
  
  You said:
  
  " You do not even need to define evil when you have an absolute truth to go by.
  
  You can go through a lot of speculation in order to define evil. It is the opposite of good, or even better, the opposite of best. "
  
  How can you define good then, or best?
  
  PLEASE take some time off to go to a course on LOGIC.
• 

  Shining One

  Hi Hamster,
  
  >Slavery came to an end as a result of humanism arguing the value of every being who is born free.
  
  Slavery (In the U.S.) was the result of a compromise dating back to the revolution, Slavery was ended mostly as a result of the second 'Great Awakening', a time of spiritual revival that emptied jails and drastically reduced alcohol consumption. This event helped birth the freedom from slavery movement and led directly to the civil war when the southern states refused to abolish it.
  
  >The Bible says that slaves should "remain in subjection to your masters with all humility."
  If every slave in the South had believed this, they would have been fighting for the Confederacy to stay in bondage. The christians in the north actually encouraged the slaves in the south to go against the divinely inspired words of St Paul and rebel.
  
  Most slaves were illiterate and had no idea of the scriptural admonitions. You are comparing apples and oranges, interpreting scripture out of context of the culture in question.
  
  >Therefore the Northern States were evil for promoting unscriptural ideology.
  
  Get the context correct before you make assumptions that have no basis in fact.
  Rex
• 

  Shining One

  Jgnat,
  I wonder why you claim to be Christian when you consistently ignore scripture and context?
  
  >The problem with worshipping the Bible as a god
  
  Are you saying that trying to respect and obey scriptural commands is somehow incorrect for Christians?
  
  >is that the defender is forever condemned to explain away it's inconsistencies.
  
  If the Bible is inconsistent, then how can you claim that it has any spiritual significance in your life? What do you use as the standard to justify ignoring some scripture and embracing other? If you don't believe that it teaches the truth of Almighty God, then how can you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ?
  The 'inconsistencies' that you claim exist are typically reconciled. Christians do not have to explain nor account for all alleged 'inconsistencies' to gain the upper hand in apologetics. Also, infallibility and inerrancy are two separate issues. You need to discern which is 'in play', instead of making wide general assumptions.
  
  >This creates twisted doctrine.
  
  'Twisted doctrine' is the result of interpreting scripture out of context. Perhaps you can explain to us the basis you use to judge ancother Christian's obedience to scripture and why they should not do so?
  
  >Following the bible slavishly, ignoring the evidence in front of us, can cause much harm.
  
  Again, if you do not hold scrpture to be factual, on what basis do you claim to be Christian? What is the 'evidence in front of us' that scripture respecting Christians ignore?
  
  > * I've seen abusers use the bible to force their victims to "forgive" them and remain in an abusive situation.
  
  How can a Christian accomplish this without being a cultist, like you and I came out of? Surely you are not comparing orthodox Christianity with Jw-ism, are you?
  
  > * I've seen evangelicals bully a deathbed conversion in order to "save" the poor soul waiting to die.
  
  Perhaps you can tell me why Romans 3.23; 6.23; 5.8; 10.9-11, John 3.3;. 3.5;, 3.16, Eph. 2.8-9 do not apply to every individual alive and why a evangelical is wrong to compassionately share scripture with another soul? What part of Matthew 28.18-20 and Acts 1.8 are you too 'good' to observe and obey?
  Sharing the gospel is no more than one beggar telling another one where to find a meal and a place to sleep. We are just be obedient to our Lord and let Him be responsible for their further welfare.
  
  > * I've seen end-time believers scour the news in hopes of finding further evidence that our world is dying.
  
  Yes, I have also and I believe they are in error. Prophecy cannot be gleaned from every day events. I will not condemn them since I myself do not know 'the day or hour.
  
  >Yes, Christians have much to apologize for. I'm sorry.
  
  We are told to not seek to be a teacher of scripture unless we are called to do so. Remember that there is a heavier responsibilty and weightier judgement for those who teach error or 'stumble others'.
  
  Rex
• 

  jgnat

  Goody, a challenge.

  Q. I wonder why you claim to be Christian when you consistently ignore scripture and context?

  A. I am a follower of Christ. Not a follower of Bible. There's a difference.
  
  Q. Are you saying that trying to respect and obey scriptural commands is somehow incorrect for Christians?

  A. Trying to defend the bible as infallible as God is infallible is doomed to failure. You are forced to believe that the world is a flat disk supported on pillars, sheol below, and a dotted tent above, Heaven. This is what the Isrealite ancestors believed, and this is what the OT references to Sheol and Heaven are based on.
  
  Q. What do you use as the standard to justify ignoring some scripture and embracing others?

  A. Two scriptures I use as my touchstone; Love God, love others as myself. And second, if it bears good fruit, we got it right.

  If you don't believe that it teaches the truth of Almighty God, then how can you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ?
  
  Q. The 'inconsistencies' that you claim exist are typically reconciled.

  A. Yes, but at what cost? If I took all scripture literally, I should be wearing a headpiece as I speak to you. I am not. Modern apologetics "explain away" this requirement, but by doing so, they lose their integrity. If the bible is infallible, then there should not be anything to "explain away".

  Q. Christians do not have to explain nor account for all alleged 'inconsistencies' to gain the upper hand in apologetics.

  A. True, if they are defending their faith. If, on the other hand, they are trying to defend the bible as infallible, they must certainly explain every inconsistency. Without relying on modern work-arounds. This is because athiests also have available to them full texts of the bible and rightfully so can call us to account.

  Q. 'Twisted doctrine' is the result of interpreting scripture out of context. Perhaps you can explain to us the basis you use to judge ancother Christian's obedience to scripture and why they should not do so?

  A. I gave three examples. Four including the headpiece. The JW abstension from blood is another. The JW's insistence that God's heroes weren't such bad guys after all, by explaining away their indescretions. Such as David's murder of Bathsheba's first husband.
  
  Q. Again, if you do not hold scrpture to be factual,

  A. Scripture is factual now? Scripture to back that up, please.

  Q. ....on what basis do you claim to be Christian?

  A. I .....am.....a.......follower......of......Christ. I am reasonably certain that Jesus' instruction got to us fairly intact. I am confident in following his example, and take the cross if necessary.

  Q. * I've seen abusers use the bible to force their victims to "forgive" them and remain in an abusive situation. How can a Christian accomplish this without being a cultist, like you and I came out of? Surely you are not comparing orthodox Christianity with Jw-ism, are you?
  
  A. I was never a JW. The examples of which I am speaking were in an evangelical church. I am saying that ANYBODY can use the bible as an offensive weapon, if they are diabolical enough.
  
  Q. * I've seen evangelicals bully a deathbed conversion in order to "save" the poor soul waiting to die. Perhaps you can tell me why Romans 3.23; 6.23; 5.8; 10.9-11, John 3.3;. 3.5;, 3.16, Eph. 2.8-9 do not apply to every individual alive and why a evangelical is wrong to compassionately share scripture with another soul? What part of Matthew 28.18-20 and Acts 1.8 are you too 'good' to observe and obey?

  A. I saw it. It was shameful. I know in my heart of hearts it was wrong. Now, I share my faith in all kinds of situations. But I do it when the person is relaxed and in possession of all their faculties. If a person is not in a frame of mind to write a will, why would we coerce a deathbed conversion from them?
  
  Q. We are told to not seek to be a teacher of scripture unless we are called to do so. Remember that there is a heavier responsibilty and weightier judgement for those who teach error or 'stumble others'.

  A. Are you suggesting I 'stumble others' with my opinion? In my opinion, your arrogant presentation of "Christianity" does more harm.

  BTW, I consider my gift to be "encourager". At least one poster here has thanked me for turning her to God and away from disillusionment.